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Students are paid for their time, work on real WordPress projects, and gain hands-on experience applying AI in ways that are directly relevant to the WordPress ecosystem. This pilot represents a meaningful step forward in how the project supports learning, contribution, and career pathways.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Beginning in March 2026, AI Leaders launches its first cohort of 80 students from Illinois and Louisiana, with <a href=\"https://today.uic.edu/uic-and-wordpress-foundation-launch-workforce-focused-ai-literacy-course/\">University of Illinois Chicago</a> (UIC) students given priority to apply before enrollment expands to the public. Enrollees begin with an orientation covering generative AI tools and AI literacy. From there, 40 participants are selected for the full course experience. Ultimately, the program leads to the AI Leader WordPress Micro-Credential and an opportunity to pursue living-wage job pathways. 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We are exploring how the Foundation could support additional credentials over time, across different skill areas and partners, while maintaining clear governance, openness, and alignment with the WordPress project. It represents a step toward a future where WordPress contributors can more easily translate their skills into credentials, careers, and long-term opportunities.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-text-color has-dark-strokes-grey-color has-alpha-channel-opacity has-dark-strokes-grey-background-color has-background\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em>WordPress offers a wide range of educational opportunities for people at every stage, from first steps to advanced contribution. Explore workshops, lesson plans, and community-created resources designed to help you build practical skills while connecting with others who are learning and contributing at <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/education/\">WordPress.org/education/</a>.</em></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 04 Feb 2026 19:03:18 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:12:\"Mary Hubbard\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:1;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:89:\"WPTavern: #203 – Miriam Schwab on Elementor’s Decade of Growth and the Future With AI\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:48:\"https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=202496\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:100:\"https://wptavern.com/podcast/203-miriam-schwab-on-elementors-decade-of-growth-and-the-future-with-ai\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:56050:\"<details>Transcript<div>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:00:19] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Welcome to the Jukebox Podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Jukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case Elementor&#8217;s decade of growth and its future plans with AI.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice, or by going to wptavern.com/feed/podcast, and you can copy that URL into most podcast players.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m keen to hear from you and hopefully get you, or your idea, featured on the show. Head to wptavern.com/contact/jukebox, and use the form there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So on the podcast today we have Miriam Schwab. Miriam has been deeply immersed in the WordPress ecosystem for around two decades. Starting out offering WordPress as a service, she went on to lead a custom WordPress agency serving major tech companies and nonprofits before founding the startup Strattic, pioneering static WordPress architecture. After Strattic&#8217;s acquisition by Elementor in 2022, Miriam took the role of Head of WordPress acting as the key liaison between Elementor and the wider WordPress community.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Elementor growth over the last decade has been prolific. Miriam says that it now powers over 13% of the entire web. She gives insights into the challenges and responsibilities that come with maintaining such a large user base, especially around major updates and backwards compatibility.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Much of our conversation centers around the rise of AI in WordPress, from built in AI tools for generating images and content to the standalone Angie plugin that introduces agentic AI capabilities across WordPress. Miriam outlines Elementor&#8217;s multi-pronged approach to innovation, talking about how their Site Planner tool uses conversational AI to guide beginners and professionals from an idea all the way to a wire framed website. And how the upcoming AI integrations promise even more granular design control.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Miriam also shares her perspectives on how the new Abilities API is set to change what&#8217;s possible inside WordPress, and what this means for developers, designers, and support teams navigating the complexities of AI driven workflows.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For those interested in how AI is shaping the future of WordPress, Elementor&#8217;s strategy, and the evolving role of creators within this ecosystem, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you&#8217;d like to find out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to wptavern.com/podcast, where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And so without further delay, I bring you Miriam Schwab.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I am joined on the podcast by Miriam Schwab. Hello Miriam.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:03:23] <strong>Miriam Schwab:</strong> Hi.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:03:24] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Nice to have you with us. Now, dear listener, I have to be very grateful to Miriam because about three weeks ago we tried to capture this exact podcast. In fact, we did. We captured this exact podcast. Unfortunately, the tech failed and Miriam&#8217;s audio was entirely silent. So we had a nice long conversation, Miriam divulged her experience and wisdom, and I got to put it out on the podcast and there was nothing there. It was completely blank. So firstly, an apology for that. And secondly, enormous thanks for coming back and talking to me.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:03:54] <strong>Miriam Schwab:</strong> Well, I have to thank you for giving this another shot because I have a feeling that the technical difficulties were also on my side. So thank you for giving this another go.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:04:03] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, well, I appreciate it. So Miriam has a long and storied history in WordPress. She&#8217;s working with Elementor at the moment, but the story goes back way further than that. Let&#8217;s just do the little potted bio at the beginning, Miriam. Just tell us a, just a short version of who you are in the WordPress space, and what you&#8217;ve achieved in the past.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:04:20] <strong>Miriam Schwab:</strong> Okay, so about 20 years ago, I discovered WordPress. Loved it, decided to work with it, started offering it as a service. Eventually that expanded into being an agency, and working on custom implementations of WordPress for tech companies and large nonprofits, which was a lot of fun and a great learning experience.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Did that for about 13 years. Sold the agency and founded a startup based on one of the many ideas I had had over the years. I had many ideas for products over the years, but I knew that I needed to make sure I wasn&#8217;t over spending my abilities, like between family and work and everything.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But I got to the stage where I was like, okay, I can do this. And I actually really loved the idea. So I founded a startup that was called Strattic. It published WordPress websites in a static architecture while retaining dynamic capabilities. And by doing that, it solved pretty much all the issues related to speed security and scalability. Raised venture capital funding for it, and it was acquired by Elementor in June, 2022.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And after joining Elementor, continued to lead the Strattic team for about six months, and then they offered me this new position that hadn&#8217;t existed before. Initially, we called it the Head of WordPress Relations, and then it evolved to just being called Head of WordPress, where I act as a liaison between Elementor and the broader WordPress community on many levels. Practically, strategically, community, like you name it and I&#8217;m probably doing it. So that&#8217;s a bit about me.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:05:43] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Do you have like a job description? Because when you say sort of Head of WordPress, there really seems to be almost no bounds in terms of the WordPress and Elementor connection. Do you have constraints on what is out of bounds? Or is it literally anything that&#8217;s connected with WordPress comes under your purview?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:05:57] <strong>Miriam Schwab:</strong> It is literally anything, pretty much. It suits me because I was the CEO of two companies, right? I led them. So I have an entrepreneurial character, I guess you could say. And I&#8217;ve always been involved in a lot of aspects of the businesses that I&#8217;ve been running, and I like that. I actually like to be involved in marketing and sales and even the financial side of things, and internal and external and all that kind of stuff. So it allows me to continue to embrace that side of me, even though I&#8217;m now like corporate. And I really appreciate that Elementor allows me that flexibility. It keeps the work that I do very interesting.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:06:33] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, I&#8217;ll bet. And you&#8217;ve always me as an extremely curious person, who likes to be busy, let&#8217;s put it that way.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Does Elementor continue to grow? I mean, I guess Elementor for me feels like it&#8217;s coming up to a decade old or something along those lines.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:06:48] <strong>Miriam Schwab:</strong> Yes, exactly. June is going to be 10 years since it was founded. We&#8217;re in our 10th year now, like heading up to it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:06:53] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, and when it began, the plugin offered an incredibly valuable free version. And this was a real good way of kind of promoting growth because page builders were becoming all the rage at that point, and the market was already becoming saturated. But Elementor managed to put some daylight between themselves and the competitors because of the fully rounded free version. And then obviously, you know, built the pro version on top of that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And then when you chart the numbers of WordPress&#8217;s growth over the last decade, I don&#8217;t know what the exact numbers are, perhaps you can fill us in on that, but it feels like quite a bit of the WordPress growth, so WordPress generally, that 43% figure that we constantly like to refer to, it feels like quite a bit of that belongs, well, not belongs, but you know what I mean, is because of the popularity of Elementor. So the growth was meteoric. And I don&#8217;t know how that&#8217;s carried on, whether the line continues that trajectory, or whether it&#8217;s kind of flat lined, but still growing. Can we just get into that a bit?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:07:50] <strong>Miriam Schwab:</strong> After Elementor was launched, it really quickly reached a million active installs, I think within a year or something because it was the right, very much the right product at the right time, bringing a lot of value to users. And like you mentioned, like with the free version, for sure, that definitely helped power its growth and adoption. But also because it was a valuable, and is a valuable product for web builders to use.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In terms of the growth, so amazingly, Elementor&#8217;s adoption continues to grow. So you know W3Techs? Every year they publish like top stuff. And the various categories is based on the absolute number of sites that that particular technology accrued over the course of 2025. For the third year running, Elementor was given the title of Top Content Management System by W3Techs, beating out Wix and Shopify and WordPress. WordPress was the winner for many years.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And I&#8217;m not privy to the exact numbers or their exact calculations, but based on what they say, if Elementor is the top CMS, it&#8217;s because over the course of 2025, it&#8217;s usage base grew by more websites than those other platforms grew, which is wild. And like there, they even states, I think Elementor started off 2025 with 11.7% of the internet, and ended off 2025 with 13.1% of the internet.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:09:12] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Wait. Do that again.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:09:13] <strong>Miriam Schwab:</strong> Of the entire web, yes, of the web. Not WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:09:17] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> We use the 43% figure to be WordPress. So that same kind of sentence, but substitute Elementor for the word WordPress in there. 13%?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:09:27] <strong>Miriam Schwab:</strong> Yeah, over 13%. So over the course of 2025, Elementor continued to grow at a very significant pace. So Elementor is still growing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:09:36] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, that&#8217;s remarkable. Do you know if that&#8217;s because of new adoption or is that that the current users of the platform, you know, who have a license for multiple sites and what have you, are just using it more and more, so that number kind of creeps up? So I guess the question there is, do you have a growing user base or is it just more broad use by your current user base?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:09:54] <strong>Miriam Schwab:</strong> Our current user base definitely contributes to growth, but by our estimation, we grew by something like three and a half million sites over the course of 2025. So a significant number of those sites are new. New users, or new sites, or whatever, that kind of thing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:10:12] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> What a phenomenal story that, I mean it is the story really inside of the WordPress space over the last decade. I presume there&#8217;s nothing that can touch those kind of stats. That&#8217;s really remarkable. And I suppose it&#8217;s a blessing and also a curse. And what I mean by that is, you&#8217;ve got this giant platform, enormous user base, but I suppose it also means that anything that you do with the Elementor platform, there&#8217;s a lot of care that needs to be taken on every single update. So if you&#8217;re going to update to the 4.0 version, which you recently did, big overhaul, but a big user base to get annoyed if things go wrong. So I guess a lot of care and attention required because of your popularity.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:10:52] <strong>Miriam Schwab:</strong> Yeah. Backwards compatibility, you know, it&#8217;s a very important aspect of WordPress development in general. So at Elementor it&#8217;s the same. It&#8217;s super critical in terms of every update that we push out, determining how far back we&#8217;re going to support things, et cetera. So every version that goes out, it has to be super duper QA&#8217;d.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And even so, you know what WordPress is like, it&#8217;s like the wild west. Every site is like a snowflake. It has its own combination of themes, plugins, server configuration, PHP version, you know what I mean? Like, good luck with that. But the team does an amazing job of really managing to make sure that pretty much every version doesn&#8217;t cause issues.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And with regards to version four, that is an overhaul. And the team, while moving ahead with creating version four, because it&#8217;ll bring a lot of value to our users and it pulls Elementor even more towards the future, it&#8217;s being done so carefully. Like every step is considered.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And in terms of how it&#8217;s being developed and also how it&#8217;s going to work in conjunction with the previous approach to Elementor. Because the assumption is, not everyone&#8217;s going to just jump over to version four. Migrating an existing site to version four may be complicated. There&#8217;s discussions around how to do that in the best way, but it may be complicated.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So even an existing site, it might have pages still built on version three and prior, while new pages will be built with version four to gain the benefits of version four. So they have to live side by side for some amount of time. It&#8217;s incredibly complicated, but it&#8217;s a really important, exciting project because, like you said, Elementor is 10 years old, which means a 10-year-old code base. That means it&#8217;s time to give it an overhaul, even with all the risk and complication involved.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:12:32] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> What&#8217;s the staff count that you&#8217;ve got over there now?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:12:34] <strong>Miriam Schwab:</strong> It&#8217;s something like 350 now, I think.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:12:37] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So enormous. But again, I presume that speaks to the things that you&#8217;ve got to do. You know, if you&#8217;re going to ship a big update, you need a lot of bodies doing the coding for that. But also, you know, checking the backwards compatibility and things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Okay, so you mentioned the future. In the year 2025, the words, well, the letters AI, I think probably were said by more people than just about anything else in the English language. Apart from maybe the word the. Everything else seems to have gone AI. If you look in the WordPress space, all of the media, all of the excitement, all of the interest, all of the everything, the oxygen is being sucked out of the room by AI, let&#8217;s put it that way.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And so Elementor, I presume, has to keep up with those current trends. What is happening over there? In terms of the page builder, and also I know there&#8217;s other ancillary products and plugins that, whilst built by you, aren&#8217;t necessarily part of that page building experience. What&#8217;s going on?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:13:26] <strong>Miriam Schwab:</strong> So we have like a number of approaches to AI and each one is getting a lot of attention. And while users are enthusiastic about them, we&#8217;re trying to figure out where to give them the best experience and how with AI. I think just like the whole world, we&#8217;re also working on figuring out AI and how to implement the best way possible.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But we strongly believe that WordPress must have strong AI capabilities in order to secure its future. And we want to see WordPress have a strong future for many years to come. But not only that, AI in WordPress will actually give it a big leg up and advantage over the more proprietary platforms in our opinion. So there&#8217;s like intense effort being made on our side to create amazing AI tooling in order to try to secure WordPress&#8217;s feature.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So what do we have? We have the kind of basic obvious stuff, which is, you&#8217;re in Elementor editor, you want to generate an image, here, you can generate an image with AI. You want to create copy, text, add title, all that kind of stuff, the content release stuff, there you go. HTML, CSS, okay. Kind of like check the box, pretty expected stuff.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Then we have Angie which is its own standalone plugin, which applies to all of WordPress, not just Elementor. And it gives agentic capabilities to WordPress in general. So whatever you would think an AI assistant would be able to do for you in your WordPress environment, it can pretty much do that. As we know, AI is non-deterministic. You tell it to do something and it will do it one way, and it tells you to do something else and it&#8217;ll do it the other way. So there&#8217;s a lot of guardrails being developed by our team to direct Angie to give the results that the user probably wants.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But you can do things like around managing your site, managing users, creating content, changing categories, WooCommerce management, product management, things like that. So it streamlines a lot of stuff. And the team is working on some like really exciting capabilities, which hopefully will be released soon. And then we&#8217;ll be able to talk about it. But in the meantime, it&#8217;s free to use. Anyone can go into the repo, install it, start using it, and of course we want to hear feedback about that. So that&#8217;s Angie.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And then the third approach with AI is our Site Planner. So Site Planner is a very cool tool. You chat to it, and you chat your way to a very robust website. It&#8217;s not like a one line prompt, build me a flower shop website, and then it just kind of guesses what you might want. It asks you very specific and useful questions so that it can get the fullest picture of what you want to build. And it guides you along the way by asking you the right questions, and then it generates a site for you in Elementor, and then you can export that site into your own hosting environment, or into our hosting environment, or you can download it as a zip file or whatever.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So the Site Planner can be the first stage in your AI website building journey. It takes you, let&#8217;s say from zero to 80, I would say. And then the last 20% of the site you can do with Angie, you can do manually, you can do with Elementor, you could do not with Elementor. You could do however you want, and launch your site.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So that&#8217;s pretty much what&#8217;s going on with AI. We have some more stuff coming out soon, but we&#8217;ll talk about it when we can, you know?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:16:39] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, so let me just reprise that and make sure I&#8217;ve understood. So the first piece of that jigsaw puzzle was the things with inside of Elementor, the page builder itself. And if we rewound the clock just five years, even though you are now saying, oh, the expected stuff, that stuff was the stuff of Star Trek. You know, oh, ask it for an image and it&#8217;ll make an image. Yeah, okay, that seems like a distant future that we&#8217;ll never reach. And yet now that&#8217;s kind of de rigueur. Everybody expects that stuff. So that&#8217;s the stuff inside of the page builder as you&#8217;d expect. Text, images and what have you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But then you&#8217;ve got this Angie product, which if I&#8217;m parsing that correctly, enables you to leverage the abilities of WordPress. So I would like you to create me a post and assign these categories to it and publish it on this particular date. Do you know, does that leverage the sort of Abilities API, or have you done the foundational work yourselves as opposed to the Core Abilities API, which the teams have been working on more recently?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:17:32] <strong>Miriam Schwab:</strong> That&#8217;s a very good question. So the Angie team started building Angie at least a year ago, which was before the Abilities API was, I don&#8217;t know, even a twinkle in someones eye. So the team, in order to make Angie work, built their own tools, like it&#8217;s called tools, exposing WordPress&#8217; capabilities, so actually invested a ton in exposing something like 200 tools in WordPress to Angie.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And not only in Angie, the team actually also did some work to expose tools in WooCommerce and ACF as like a starting point for, because they&#8217;re very popular plugins. So when the Abilities API came around, the team already had a lot that was done and also more than what the Abilities API has. The goal is to sync up with the Abilities API and leverage it. At the moment there&#8217;s still some issues, at least on our end using it. But we&#8217;re in constant communication with the WordPress AI teams and giving feedback and things like that. So hopefully we&#8217;ll be able to resolve that. But the team did build all of that themselves, which is pretty amazing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:18:33] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, that is amazing. But I guess given what Elementor touches, and the fact that you&#8217;ve got that enormous staff there that can try to build that, it kind of made sense to go at that because you didn&#8217;t know that the team were working on the Abilities API. I remember when that dropped. So I&#8217;ve been covering WordPress news for, I don&#8217;t know, a decade or something like that. I remember thinking, this is probably the most consequential piece of news that I&#8217;ve ever covered.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The idea of binding AI, so AI in the scenario that you described first, where I&#8217;m in Elementor, I want an image, I&#8217;m in Elementor, I want some text. That&#8217;s interesting, but it&#8217;s really confined. There&#8217;s lots of boxes around that, there&#8217;s only a certain permutation of things that you can do. But the minute you start to bind an AI to all the things that WordPress can do, so create a user, delete a user, create a page, schedule it for this time. Oh, I don&#8217;t know. Just imagine clicking around inside the WordPress admin interface and wherever you end up, there&#8217;s a thing, there&#8217;s a box or a field to fill out, and there&#8217;s an ability that can be done by that thing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And uncovering those and making it so that the AI agent can understand what that is, it&#8217;s very hard to me to encapsulate in English why I think that&#8217;s so impressive. But, do you know what I mean? Can you see the thread of what I&#8217;m trying to say there, how important that is?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:19:49] <strong>Miriam Schwab:</strong> It is super impressive. What you&#8217;re saying about AI being like, if we had thought about it five years ago, it would be amazing. Even agentic AI, everyone talks about agents as if it&#8217;s like obvious that AI can be agentic. But for quite a bit of time in the beginning, and of course AI years are like a million years.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So for the first year and a half or something of us, of the world using AI, something like that, there wasn&#8217;t even agentic AI. So the fact that there&#8217;s agentic AI, and that it can be applied to WordPress is pretty wild. And I&#8217;ll tell you why I also think it&#8217;s wild. Because WordPress is 20 years old, 23 years old, whatever it is at this point. It&#8217;s a legacy platform. And the fact that it can be, the Abilities API is a really smart approach to it because it kind of slackens the exposure of everything that&#8217;s going on behind WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Instead of needing like a million different APIs and different approaches and that every plugin&#8217;s creating their own way to integrate with WordPress. It standardises it in a way that actually is also good for development, but also is good for the AI future, because it means that the way AI will interface with WordPress is straightforward and standard enough that regardless of what the LLMs end up doing going forward, if there&#8217;s more capabilities, if we move beyond agentic to who knows what, I don&#8217;t know what, like implants in our brains, then we can still interface with WordPress even though it&#8217;s over 20 years old. I think that&#8217;s amazing. So kudos to the team for accomplishing that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:21:12] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, and it was a penny that just didn&#8217;t drop for me. I saw AI as this interesting thing where it could create content, but I didn&#8217;t make the connection with all of the myriad things that WordPress could do. I just thought, okay, it&#8217;ll be inside the block editor, or it&#8217;ll be inside of Elementor or wherever it lives. That&#8217;s where the AI will belong. And then when I first read a summary of what the Abilities API was going to achieve, and that then binds to a whole other layer of APIs surrounding that, that was when the penny dropped. And I thought, okay, so basically what you&#8217;ve done there is you&#8217;ve opened the door and you&#8217;ve said, here&#8217;s all the things that a WordPress website can do. Until now, the AI was just in the interface and you could, you know, words and images and what have you. Now it&#8217;s, okay, we&#8217;ve opened the doors, now you can do the whole range of things that you&#8217;d like to do with the AI. And so it opens up all of those capabilities.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Again, the words fail me, but the import of it, the importance of it, I think only time will tell. But it feels like it&#8217;s probably one of the more important things. And again, like you said, 20 year old legacy system, there could have been a moment where the two paths split and, you know, AI became more interesting outside of WordPress, and WordPress sudden decline and what have you. But by opening the doors and saying, actually let&#8217;s just let all of the AI in and you can explore that if you wish to, kind of interesting for those people that want to.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:22:29] <strong>Miriam Schwab:</strong> Yeah, WordPress could have struggled to keep up with AI and we, I&#8217;m not saying it&#8217;s not a struggle. I think we&#8217;re a bit late to the AI game in general as a, like an ecosystem, which is understandable. We&#8217;re open source, things like, you know, move slower and by committee, so that&#8217;s just how it goes. But the fact that it picked itself up, the team was established and within six months of being established or something like that, it already had accomplished their four pillars of work that they had set out for themselves, is really amazing. And it&#8217;s super important for the future of WordPress, and it&#8217;s great to see that they were able to accomplish that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:23:01] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, and also it feels like the moment has arrived where a lot of the people that write in the WordPress space, so content creators and what have you, they&#8217;ve sort of got this now and they&#8217;re now creating content. And some of the people that no doubt, you and I both follow, who may be writing on their own blog or on social media or what have you, there seems to have been over the last couple of months, a real, a sense that, okay, WordPress has a place. We don&#8217;t need to worry about that anymore. We&#8217;ve now got a path with this AI team. State of the Word AI team sort gathered there and pressed the big red button and all that kind of stuff. There seems to have been so much focus that it&#8217;s built itself into relevance again. And there seems to be less worry. People now writing content about the things that WordPress can do with these abilities bound to it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Okay, so let&#8217;s move on to the third strand of what you mentioned, which was, forgive me if I get this wrong. You said Site Planner, right? Was that correct?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:23:51] <strong>Miriam Schwab:</strong> Site planner, yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:23:51] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay. And this is a conversation that you have. This is something that I always find kind of interesting. You know, getting into a conversation with something which is essentially an AI, that&#8217;s kind of curious. But you mentioned that whole process was a back and forth. So it&#8217;s not, I want a website. You write this great, big, long prompt, click the button, wait for five minutes and kind of cross your fingers and hope for the best. This is more of a dialogue, is it? Where you repeatedly get asked a series of smaller questions, which hopefully then build up to the sort of final thing. Tell us a little bit more.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:24:19] <strong>Miriam Schwab:</strong> The way that works is, yes, you can like paste in some kind of giant prompt, but even then, whether you start with like one sentence or a prompt, the Site Planner will ask you questions, clarifying questions, and also suggestive questions. Do you want any of these types of pages, or content on your site? And things like that. It&#8217;s really good for guiding non-professionals.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It then creates actually a brief, like it writes out a brief for your website based on this conversation. So it&#8217;s really good for non-professionals who don&#8217;t know the questions to ask, right? They don&#8217;t know what they should be even considering. So it asks questions for them.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But it&#8217;s also great for professionals. It cuts down a lot of time in the research stage of building a site for a client. And the AI can actually like give them added value in terms of asking questions they might not have thought of. That conversation process can be cut short whenever the user wants. Like it can go on for as long as they want, but they can also say, that&#8217;s enough, let&#8217;s build the site based on what we discussed.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When the AI is creating the brief, it will tell you the strength of the brief, like in the top right corner of Site Planner. So once you get to the stage where it says strong brief, you could stop there, but you could keep going. The more information you give it, the better the outcome will be. Just like with AI in general.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So once you finish that conversation, you say, let&#8217;s move to the next stage. It creates a site map. So it shows the hierarchy of the site based on the conversation. But also, on each page it shows you like what type of content it will have, and it actually gives you the content. The nice thing about the way the AI builds the site is that, first of all, content is king, which it always has been on websites. And here you really get to see the strength of that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So the content that it creates is really good because it&#8217;s based on this conversation that you had with it. At that site map stage you can drag and drop things around, add different pages that it didn&#8217;t include, remove sections from pages, but it&#8217;s just content chunks. Once you are happy with that stage, you go to the next stage, which is the website stage.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We call it the wireframe stage because it&#8217;s not like a fully designed site, it&#8217;s more like the site with a structure, but it&#8217;s like 80% of the way there. It could have like testimonials section, contact page form, gallery. I created a demo site for a cafe that also has community events. So it has an events page. It&#8217;s really great. It like really gets you 80% of the way there. It saves a lot of time, and if you&#8217;re a professional, you can show your client that at that stage and work off of that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If anyone works with clients, you know that communicating and getting to a point where everyone&#8217;s happy can be very challenging when you don&#8217;t have something to show. But here, when you have something to show, you get past that blank canvas stage, which is very hard for people to like even imagine anything, and then you can work from there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So once you have the wire frames done, also at that wire frame stage, by the way, you can also there edit things, remove things, et cetera. Change the colour palette, upload a logo to be used across the site, and things like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Then you can publish the site. You can publish it into our own hosting environment in one click, but you can also publish it into any existing Elementor account. You just kind of add your It hooks up to your account and it will send it to wherever that site is hosted. Or you can download and upload it somewhere else. So it gets you from zero to 80, or 90% of the way with a site through a conversation and then you can like tweak it, polish it, and finalise it from there. So it&#8217;s really useful in my opinion.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:27:34] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So prior to the publication of it, you mentioned that you could show it to your clients. Is the capacity to have a public facing yet not public facing, if you know what I mean? So a URL, which is visible to you, but not the wider world for SEO and what have you. Is it possible to sort of take an up and running version, give it to a client so that they can have a little bit of a poke around?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:27:52] <strong>Miriam Schwab:</strong> That&#8217;s an interesting question. At that point, when it&#8217;s still in site planner, I think it&#8217;s only visible to you. So you would have to download and put it somewhere. But then you could put it in like a staging site or wherever you want to put it. You could share your screen with the client. But yeah, I think you can&#8217;t share the URL to that particular project within a third party.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:28:09] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Because that&#8217;s all so very instantaneous compared to, you know, it may be that you get into this dialogue, which takes half an hour or what have you. But, you know, compared to the old way of building things, it&#8217;s more or less instantaneous. I had this notion that a service like that would be kind of interesting if it spat out four or five variations of the same thing at the same time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So I realise there&#8217;s a sort of, you know, a burden in terms of technology and overhead and all of that, cPU time and what have you. But the idea of entering that client meeting with five versions of the same basic thing. So, okay, I have a, I don&#8217;t know, a bricks and mortar store and I sell widgets. So I build the one version, but Elementor, for example, in this scenario, builds me four others as well. And then I can go through and cherry pick which bits of this one do you like or, I like the colour scheme of that, if you know what I mean? So I don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;s possible to do that. In other words, is it possible to spin up multiple versions of the same thing, or would you have to sort of start from scratch each time?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:29:02] <strong>Miriam Schwab:</strong> Well, what you can do within the project is you can ask it to regenerate a section. Like, you could be like, I don&#8217;t like that. So you could say like, do it differently and then it will suggest something else. You could theoretically, I guess like create a second page, let&#8217;s say a second about page and then be like, okay, suggest a different format for me for this. Like a different structure because it&#8217;s not exactly design.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The design afterwards can be worked on with a client or whatever. It&#8217;s more like the structure of the page. So, and even though it&#8217;s a live website, it is like structure. So you could be like, no, I want the testimonials to be a different style, like suggest something else. And then you could show, I guess the customer various pages within the site. It&#8217;s an interesting idea.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I know that the team is working on Site Planner, and it will be more rolled into the WordPress Elementor environment, like in the site. Right now, it&#8217;s an external tool, so once it&#8217;s in there, you could like duplicate pages, you could regenerate pages, things like that. I don&#8217;t have an ETA on when that&#8217;s happening but that&#8217;s the general direction.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:29:58] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It&#8217;s a fascinating conversation. And the other thing I was going to say is that there&#8217;s obviously, in your community, there&#8217;s a lot of people who are, they have a lot of history of building things with Elementor. They&#8217;ve learned the UI inside and out. They&#8217;ve become experts. They know where every checkbox is. If you show them something in Figma and then give them 10 minutes, they&#8217;ll mimic that perfectly.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And I was wondering what kind of capabilities the AI has within the Elementor interface. So in other words, does it do a sort of cookie cutter job of creating rows and sections and what have you, based upon things that have already been prebuilt? Or can it, in its AI wire frame stage, can it do, I don&#8217;t know, unique padding or crazy CSS things? Can it get into all of the bits and pieces that Elementor offers, all of those rich experiences? Or is it more kind of, okay, somebody in the team built these testimonial elements, and so we&#8217;re going to basically pick one of those and mimic that onto this wire frame?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:30:52] <strong>Miriam Schwab:</strong> So there&#8217;s Angie as it exists now and there&#8217;s Angies that will be over the next few months. So I&#8217;m going to be giving like, I guess kind of a sneak preview into what&#8217;s coming.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">At the moment it can do a lot within Elementor, but it is kind of constrained within what Elementor classically does. However, v4 is going to enable the AI, or let&#8217;s say the v4 AI partnership will give it a lot more creative capabilities, and extend basically to whatever you want it to do, that you can do with Angie. From custom code snippets, to custom widgets, to custom anything, or working within the Elementor. There&#8217;s going to be a lot of interesting things that people can do, basically in some ways just limited by their creative ideas.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:31:38] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Right, so much more granular. Because I have this vision that at some point in the future, and maybe some tool out there can do this. But I have this vision that, let&#8217;s say you&#8217;re inside Elementor, you&#8217;ve got 99% of the way there, and then you suddenly realise that that picture of the cat is the wrong cat. And so you just sort of say, can we have a different cat? No, not that one. Okay, that cat. And now, could we make the borders rounder on that particular image and give it a bit of a box shadow? That would be nice. Oh, and then swap it around so the text is on the other side.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So you end up in this sort of dialogue, almost like you&#8217;re chatting to the designer and you are watching over their shoulder as they build it. That seems to be the kind of place where we would love to get to. And then of course we enter this curious, difficult moment for the web developers and web designers, where these things become so dreadfully straightforward and easy that we then have to start questioning, how do you offer this as a client service if almost everybody can speak to a website and get it to do whatever you would like it to do?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So there&#8217;s two things in there. I sort of smuggled the last one in. But the first one is this sort of dialogue with the website, and then the second one is whether or not these tools are making it more difficult to be in the industry that we all love so much.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:32:44] <strong>Miriam Schwab:</strong> With regards to the dialogue description, so AI in general, it&#8217;s become like our team members for certain things. You know, in the past, if I wanted to, let&#8217;s say, post something on social media on behalf of Elementor, I would go to the design team and ask them to design something and go through that process, and then get what they gave me and then post it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And now my design team is Nano Banana, right? Or ChatGPT. I get two versions, they compete against each other. Whichever one works best for me is what I take. And so it&#8217;s like that in almost everything we do if we&#8217;re using AI, and also in the world of website creation, design, development, and management. Our team for many aspects of it will become AI, which will create greater efficiency and also it seems like greater redundancy.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But I think like anything with a tool, the results will be defined by the abilities and skills of the person directing it. AI needs direction and that conversation to happen. And the quality of the results will be dependent on the skillset of the user, not skillset in terms of, how do I get AI to do stuff? But skillset of, what should an excellent website be?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So the human in the loop, I think, will continue to be a very important part. It&#8217;s just we&#8217;re kicking the can down the road kind of thing in terms of where we bring value. So instead of us bringing value, sitting and clicking on an image and changing the background using Photoshop, our value will be in being the director and producer of what output we want it to have and getting it there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So we&#8217;re not like the tinkerers and like the hammer or nail people, we&#8217;re the contractor or the strategist, or the blueprint creators. So the conversations will take place, but the human in the loop part will still be really important. We all, whether we&#8217;re web creators or whatever profession we have, have to figure out how to use AI to help us do what we&#8217;re doing better.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I actually don&#8217;t exactly agree with the idea that AI helps us do more. It does, a lot of things become faster, but I think the value is that a lot of things get done better and a higher quality. So there&#8217;s that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So how do we use AI to the best of our abilities to help us do our work even better. But also, how do we continue to provide value in a world that&#8217;s dominated by AI? And that&#8217;s like, I don&#8217;t know what the answers are. 2026 is going to be the year of, who knows? Because AI changes every second. They could invent a new model or release a new model tomorrow that changes this whole conversation.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:35:19] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> One of the things that, sort of round it off with this one maybe. I&#8217;m thinking about your support system. So your support system, which has built up over 10 years, and presumably worked to help your clients. But the clients themselves probably started with a blank canvas and then, you know, made mistakes along the way, but were able to describe the mistakes that they made along the way to your support agents. Like, okay, I was doing this and then something went wrong. Can you unpick that for me? Where did I go wrong?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The realignment that needs to take place for your support team with the advent of AI, I suppose is fairly profound because you&#8217;ll probably have a lot of users who will just know that they did a prompt. And now this thing happened and I didn&#8217;t want that thing to happen. How do I go back? I mean there&#8217;s obviously a case of click undo, or don&#8217;t save the changes or whatever. But I&#8217;m also imagining the support that you provide has to pivot a lot as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:36:06] <strong>Miriam Schwab:</strong> The development of AI has to include implementing a ton of guardrails to prevent users from doing things that can damage their site. I&#8217;ll give you an example. In the early days of Angie, I generally love pushing tools to their limits, so I was pushing Angie to its limit and I got it to kick me out of my own site and remove my user. And I was like, well that&#8217;s not cool. So guardrails were put in place around that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">There&#8217;s concepts of, first of all, not allowing a user to implement something until they&#8217;re sure. Like meaning, not just be like, hey AI, can you do this? And the AI is like, done. No. AI is like, okay, here&#8217;s what it will look like, here&#8217;s what it will do, that kind of thing. Do you want to go ahead? Then, of course, undo buttons.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But then even with all of that, yeah, support could be different. We can have logs and things like that about what happened and why it happened and things like that. And that can help troubleshoot things. But on the other hand, I think support can become much better because while still the human is in the loop, getting the answers to issues, you know, you end up with this huge knowledge base of stuff, and a support agent can only know so much. Our brains are finite. We don&#8217;t know what someone discovered yesterday as an issue and as a solution and all that kind of stuff. So once you have AI kind of like analysing your corpus of knowledge and then pulling out what can help you or the user, then that becomes much better.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But I&#8217;ll give you another interesting angle of where support becomes complicated, where you have the Abilities API, or Angie or both, and a user is interacting with Angie, let&#8217;s say, and Elementor and also a third party plugin that is also working with AI. And then there&#8217;s something borks. And then the user is like, was it Elementor that was a problem? Was it WordPress that was a problem? Was it this third party plugin that was a problem? How do I even ask for support when I don&#8217;t know what just caused that issue? I guess it&#8217;s another version of plugin conflicts, but it&#8217;s just taking it to another level.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:38:01] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, it&#8217;s a different level altogether. I said that was my final question. Turns out I was being insincere. I have one more. And that is, I know that Elementor has done a lot of work trying to make websites more accessible in the recent past. And so that&#8217;s the final question, I promise. The idea that we hand over the agency of this to our AI builder and so things like accessibility, there may be other things that we could smuggle in there as well, but we&#8217;ll go with accessibility. Is work being done to ensure that the output follows WCAG guidelines and things along those lines?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:38:32] <strong>Miriam Schwab:</strong> So something that I&#8217;ve seen as we&#8217;re working on implementing AI capabilities is that there&#8217;s this idea that I had, and I think others do as well, that AI is the all powerful whatever. And if you just say to it, make my site accessible, it will make my site accessible. So it turns out it&#8217;s not like that. Maybe one day it will be. But AI needs tools, needs direction, needs the capabilities, and it doesn&#8217;t just have it just because it&#8217;s AI.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So it&#8217;s kind of the same with accessibility. So actually Elementor created an accessibility plugin called Ally, which is very useful because it goes through the website, analyses it, tells you where there&#8217;s issues, but doesn&#8217;t just tell you where there is issues, it gives you solutions. And it can, with AI, implement those solutions. Like you can click and be like, fix that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And that kind of ongoing accessibility assistance means that a person can, first of all do like a once through of their site and bring it to a better level of accessibility. We don&#8217;t guarantee like 100% accessibility, I don&#8217;t know if anyone can, but it improves accessibility on many levels.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And then as you&#8217;re going along, it can keep an eye on things or you can like trigger it and it can help make sure that whatever you&#8217;re doing going forward also stays within accessibility guidelines. So it&#8217;s like a really useful assistant, slash solution, slash tool that users can implement on an ongoing basis with their site. So worth checking out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:39:59] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, I&#8217;ll put that into the show notes as well. And if memory serves, I could be wrong about this, if memory serves it&#8217;s not an Elementor specific solution.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:40:06] <strong>Miriam Schwab:</strong> Oh, right, exactly. It&#8217;s for all sites, all WordPress sites.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:40:08] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So any WordPress website can benefit from that. Okay, that&#8217;s interesting. Okay, so who knows what the year 2026 will bring. It no doubt will be chaos, turmoil.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:40:18] <strong>Miriam Schwab:</strong> It won&#8217;t be boring.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:40:19] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> That&#8217;s the words. Yeah, it definitely won&#8217;t be boring. And, yeah, good luck for Elementor in the year 2026.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:40:26] <strong>Miriam Schwab:</strong> Thank you. I&#8217;m excited, by the way, for 2026. It&#8217;s like a whole new world, and I think in some ways, at least for me, and I see this with others, it like reignited a spark for innovation in WordPress. WordPress is amazing, it&#8217;s been amazing for over 20 years and we&#8217;ve always, you know, been seeking, looking for ways to innovate. But AI takes it to a whole other level and makes innovation more accessible, if we&#8217;re going to use that word. And it&#8217;s really fun to see what people are creating around AI for WordPress. And I think we&#8217;re going to see some amazing things released over the course of 2026, not just by Elementor, that will make WordPress, wow. Anyways, that&#8217;s just my thoughts about 2026.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:41:00] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Miriam Schwab, thank you for chatting to me today.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:41:02] <strong>Miriam Schwab:</strong> Thank you.</p>\n</div></details>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">On the podcast today we have <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/illuminea/\">Miriam Schwab</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Miriam has been deeply immersed in the WordPress ecosystem for around two decades. Starting out offering WordPress as a service, she went on to lead a custom WordPress agency serving major tech companies and nonprofits, before founding the startup Strattic, pioneering static WordPress architecture. After Strattic’s acquisition by Elementor in 2022, Miriam took on the role of Head of WordPress, acting as the key liaison between Elementor and the wider WordPress community.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Elementor’s growth over the last decade has been prolific. Miriam says that it now powers over 13% of the entire web. She gives insights into the challenges and responsibilities that come with maintaining such a large user base, especially around major updates and backwards compatibility.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Much of our conversation centres around the rise of AI in WordPress. From built-in AI tools for generating images and content, to the stand-alone Angie plugin that introduces agentic AI capabilities across WordPress. Miriam outlines Elementor’s multi-pronged approach to innovation, talking about how their Site Planner tool uses conversational AI to guide beginners and professionals from an idea all the way to a wireframed website, and how the upcoming AI integrations promise even more granular design control.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Miriam also shares her perspective on how the new Abilities API is set to change what’s possible inside WordPress, and what this means for developers, designers, and support teams navigating the complexities of AI-driven workflows.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For those interested in how AI is shaping the future of WordPress, Elementor’s strategy, and the evolving roles of creators within this ecosystem, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Useful links</h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://elementor.com\">Elementor</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://elementor.com/blog/elementor-acquires-strattic/\">Elementor Acquires Strattic To Redefine WordPress Hosting</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://w3techs.com\">W3Tech</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://elementor.com/products/angie-ai-for-wordpress/\">Angie plugin</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/apis/abilities-api/\">Abilities API</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://elementor.com/products/ally-web-accessibility/\">Ally plugin</a></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 04 Feb 2026 15:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Nathan Wrigley\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:2;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:74:\"Open Channels FM: Navigating Tech Shifts, Expanding Your Developer Toolkit\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:33:\"https://openchannels.fm/?p=115049\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:80:\"https://openchannels.fm/navigating-tech-shifts-expanding-your-developer-toolkit/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:209:\"Zach Stepek and Carl Alexander discuss winter challenges, work-life balance, and AI’s impact on coding. They emphasize the importance of diversifying skills and adapting to tech changes for career longevity.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 04 Feb 2026 13:14:08 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:3;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:34:\"Open Channels FM: Tech Predictions\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:33:\"https://openchannels.fm/?p=114894\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:41:\"https://openchannels.fm/tech-predictions/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:60:\"For content creators, it\'s murky waters that many wade into.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 04 Feb 2026 09:05:14 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:4;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:55:\"WordPress.org blog: WordPress 6.9.1 Maintenance Release\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=19862\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:71:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2026/02/wordpress-6-9-1-maintenance-release/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:9407:\"<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>WordPress 6.9.1 is now available!</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This minor release includes fixes for 49 bugs <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/query?resolution=fixed&amp;milestone=6.9.1&amp;group=component&amp;col=id&amp;col=summary&amp;col=milestone&amp;col=owner&amp;col=type&amp;col=status&amp;col=priority&amp;order=priority\">throughout Core</a> and <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/pull/74806\">the Block Editor</a>, addressing issues affecting multiple areas of WordPress including the block editor, mail, and classic themes. For a full list of bug fixes, please refer to the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2026/01/30/wordpress-6-9-1-rc1-is-now-available/\">release candidate announcement.</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">WordPress 6.9.1 is a short-cycle maintenance release. The next major version of WordPress will be 7.0; it is scheduled for release on 9 April 2026 at <a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2026/\">WordCamp Asia</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you have sites that support automatic background updates, the update process will begin automatically.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You can <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/wordpress-6.9.1.zip\">download WordPress 6.9.1 from WordPress.org</a>, or visit your WordPress Dashboard, click “Updates”, and then click “Update Now”. For more information on this release, please <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/support/wordpress-version/version-6-9-1\">visit the HelpHub site</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Thank you to these WordPress contributors</h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This release was led by <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jorbin/\">Aaron Jorbin</a> and <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/wildworks\">Aki Hamano.</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">WordPress 6.9.1 would not have been possible without the contributions of the following people. Their asynchronous coordination to deliver maintenance fixes into a stable release is a testament to the power and capability of the WordPress community.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"is-style-wporg-props-medium wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jorbin\">Aaron Jorbin</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/aaronrobertshaw\">Aaron Robertshaw</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/acmoifr\">acmoifr</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/adamsilverstein\">Adam Silverstein</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/oztaser\">Adil Öztaşer</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/wildworks\">Aki Hamano</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/albigdd\">Alexander Bigga</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/amanandhishoe\">amanandhishoe</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/andrewserong\">Andrew Serong</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bernhard-reiter\">Bernie Reiter</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/brumack\">brumack</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/darerodz\">David Arenas</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/davidbaumwald\">David Baumwald</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/raftaar1191\">Deepak Gupta</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/deepakprajapati\">Deepak Prajapati</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dmsnell\">Dennis Snell</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/digitalblanket\">digitalblanket</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ellatrix\">Ella Van Durpe</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/fabiankaegy\">Fabian Kaegy</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mamaduka\">George Mamadashvili</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hbhalodia\">Hit Bhalodia</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/iflairwebtechnologies\">iflairwebtechnologies</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/isabel_brison\">Isabel Brison</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jdeep\">Jaydeep Das</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/audrasjb\">Jb Audras</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/maverick3x6\">Jeff Golenski</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jeffpaul\">Jeffrey Paul</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jhtjards\">jhtjards</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/joedolson\">Joe Dolson</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/johnbillion\">John Blackbourn</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jonsurrell\">Jon Surrell</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/desrosj\">Jonathan Desrosiers</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jorgefilipecosta\">Jorge Costa</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/greenshady\">Justin Tadlock</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/karthickmurugan\">Karthick</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/solankisoftware\">Kirtikumar Solanki</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/0mirka00\">Lena Morita</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/luisherranz\">luisherranz</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/madhavishah01\">Madhavi Shah</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sirlouen\">Manuel Camargo</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jillro\">Maud Royer</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mehrazmorshed\">Mehraz Morshed</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/monarobase\">Monarobase</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mrwweb\">mrwweb</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mukesh27\">Mukesh Panchal</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/muryam\">Muryam Sultana</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mydesign78\">mydesign78</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/narenin\">Narendra Sishodiya</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ntsekouras\">Nik Tsekouras</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ninos-ego\">Ninos</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/noruzzaman\">Noruzzaman</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/oglekler\">Olga Gleckler</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/gabertronic\">Ophelia Rose</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ov3rfly\">Ov3rfly</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ozgursar\">Ozgur Sar</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/paragoninitiativeenterprises\">Paragon Initiative Enterprises</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/swissspidy\">Pascal Birchler</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/vybiral\">Pavel Vybíral</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/peterwilsoncc\">Peter Wilson</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pmbs\">pmbs</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/presskopp\">Presskopp</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/r1k0\">r1k0</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ramonopoly\">ramonopoly</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/youknowriad\">Riad Benguella</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ricjcs\">Ricardo S.</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rollybueno\">Rolly Bueno</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mikachan\">Sarah Norris</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/coffee2code/\">Scott Reilly</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sergeybiryukov\">Sergey Biryukov</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sajib1223\">Shazzad Hossain Khan</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/siliconforks\">siliconforks</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/soyebsalar01\">Soyeb Salar</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/spielers\">spielers</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sabernhardt\">Stephen Bernhardt</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/studiomondiale\">studio_m</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/iamtakashi\">Takashi Irie</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/inc2734\">Takashi Kitajima</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/threadi\">threadi</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/tobiasbg\">Tobias Bäthge</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/shimotomoki\">Tomoki Shimomura</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/umeshsinghin\">Umesh Singh</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/twvania\">Vania</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/westonruter\">Weston Ruter</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/wfmattr\">WFMattR</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/wolf45\">wolf45</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/zoe20\">zoe20</a></p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">How to contribute</h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">To get involved in WordPress core development, head over to Trac, <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/report/6\">pick a ticket</a>, and join the conversation in the <a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/archives/C02RQBWTW\">#core</a> channel. Need help? Check out the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/\">Core Contributor Handbook</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-right wp-block-paragraph\"><em>Props to </em><a class=\"mention\" href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/audrasjb/\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>audrasjb</a>, <a class=\"mention\" href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/davidbaumwald/\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>davidbaumwald</a>, <a class=\"mention\" href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/westonruter/\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>westonruter</a>, <a class=\"mention\" href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jeffpaul/\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>jeffpaul</a>, <a class=\"mention\" href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/presskopp/\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>presskopp</a><em> for proofreading.</em></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 03 Feb 2026 18:07:31 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:12:\"Aaron Jorbin\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:5;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:63:\"Jonathan Desrosiers: Offering Criticism in Open Source Projects\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:38:\"https://jonathandesrosiers.com/?p=9966\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:82:\"https://jonathandesrosiers.com/2026/02/offering-criticism-in-open-source-projects/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:32055:\"<p class=\"\">A <a href=\"https://crossword.fm/s10/e10/\">recent episode</a> of the <a href=\"https://crossword.fm/\">Crossword podcast</a> had me thinking about offering criticism constructively in open source projects. <a href=\"https://jonathanwold.com/\">Jonathan Wold</a> and <a href=\"https://carb.is/\">Luke Carbis</a> were discussing the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/download/releases/6-9/\">new Notes feature in WordPress 6.9</a>, which was added as a building block for real-time collaboration.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Luke mentioned how he was curious about the reasoning behind the related technical decisions. He was having some difficulties and was a bit concerned about the choice to use the preexisting Comments APIs with a new comment type to build out the Notes feature. The part of this conversation that I really found interesting was when they discussed how it was unfair to the contributors who did work on the feature for him to complain or criticize without knowing the full background of why it was built in the way that it was.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I&#8217;ve heavily condensed and paraphrased, so I definitely recommend giving the episode a full listen.</p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-embed-aspect-21-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio wp-block-embed is-type-rich is-provider-spotify wp-block-embed-spotify\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div></figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">This premise stuck with me and sent me down several rabbit holes, each one leading to a different dynamic within open source communities. When is it acceptable to be critical in open source? Is it fair to offer criticism when you don&#8217;t have all of the information? If so, what is the right way to go about sharing? Who is allowed to criticize? When is it appropriate to solely observe rather than attempt to participate? How do you transition from an observer to a participant? Let&#8217;s dig into these questions a bit more.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-who-can-contribute\">Who Can Contribute?</h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">The simple answer to this question is anyone and everyone, of course! It is open source after all! But don’t stop reading because it’s not <em>actually</em> that simple.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">While everyone <em>can</em> participate, there are so many forces at play that impact <em>how</em> you should contribute. Knowing what these are, understanding them, and being able to recognize them can help make your open source journey a more successful and rewarding one.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I won&#8217;t be covering contributing from the perspective of specific disciplines (ie. code, documentation, testing, etc.), or even different ways of contributing (ie. financial, time-based, etc.). Instead I&#8217;m looking to define two broad &#8220;states&#8221; of contributing, how to move back and forth between these two groups, and how to communicate better so that everyone feels welcome to contribute.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">First let&#8217;s establish what these two groups of contributors are.</p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full wp-lightbox-container\"><img alt=\"An empty auditorium in a university is furnished with wooden chairs that have blue cushions. The chairs are neatly arranged in rows, facing a stage or a podium that is not visible in the frame. The room is empty of people, and the lighting is relatively bright, daytime or artificial lighting. The overall atmosphere of the scene is academy.\" class=\"wp-image-10599 not-transparent\" height=\"3333\" src=\"https://jonathandesrosiers.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/02/570645e40a6435bc2.81819652.jpg\" width=\"5000\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			<svg fill=\"none\" height=\"12\" viewBox=\"0 0 12 12\" width=\"12\" xmlns=\"http://www.w3.org/2000/svg\">\n				<path d=\"M2 0a2 2 0 0 0-2 2v2h1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 1 .5-.5h2V0H2Zm2 10.5H2a.5.5 0 0 1-.5-.5V8H0v2a2 2 0 0 0 2 2h2v-1.5ZM8 12v-1.5h2a.5.5 0 0 0 .5-.5V8H12v2a2 2 0 0 1-2 2H8Zm2-12a2 2 0 0 1 2 2v2h-1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 0-.5-.5H8V0h2Z\" fill=\"#fff\">\n			</svg>\n		</button><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\"><a href=\"https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/\">CC0</a> licensed <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/photos/photo/570645e40a/\">photo</a> by <a href=\"https://blazejzablotny.pl/\">Blazej Zablotny</a> from the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/photos/\">WordPress Photo Directory</a>.</figcaption></figure>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-passive-contributing\">Passive Contributing</h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Whether they know it or not, every single user and consumer of an open source project contributes back in some way.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">When you use a piece of software (whether it’s open source or not), you are using your voice (and in some cases, your wallet) to communicate that the software is valuable to you. “This piece of software solves a problem that I have.” Over time, continued usage turns into a second layer of feedback. “This piece of software continues to solve a problem that I have well enough to continue using it.”</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I like to think of this as &#8220;passive contributing&#8221; because it happens naturally through the normal use of software without any additional level of effort required. The examples I gave above are the most simple and pure examples of passive contribution and may not seem that useful. But passive contributions can be quite significant at scale.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Every WordPress site checks if there are available updates for plugins, themes, and Core itself every 12 hours. However, a few details are needed to ensure an accurate answer is given, such as the version of WordPress the site is currently running, the site&#8217;s PHP and database versions, the PHP extensions loaded, etc..</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Now consider this happening across tens of millions of WordPress sites. This becomes <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observability_(software)#Telemetry_types\">metric-based telemetry</a> and the data helps paint a <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/about/stats/\">larger picture of what the &#8220;typical&#8221; environment is for a WordPress site</a>. This data allows contributors to make well-informed decisions about the software itself. What should the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2026/01/09/dropping-support-for-php-7-2-and-7-3/\">minimum required version of PHP be</a>? Should a <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2019/10/15/php-native-json-extension-now-required/\">native PHP extension be required to run WordPress</a>?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Understanding the actual real-world state is essential before making certain changes, especially in a project so staunchly committed to backward compatibility such as WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-untapped-potential\">Untapped Potential</h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">In many ways, this group is the most exciting one in open source. There is so much potential to tap into! One thing that I&#8217;ve learned is that you never know what will inspire someone or how they will discover contributing. This is just one compelling reason to <a href=\"https://producingoss.com/en/producingoss.html#be-open-from-day-one\">underscore the importance of working in the open</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote alignwide has-text-align-center is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"is-style-text-title is-style-text-title--1\">&#8220;Each interaction with a user is an opportunity to get a new participant.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><a href=\"https://producingoss.com/en/managing-participants.html#users-to-participants\">Producing Open Source Software</a> &#8211; Carl Fogel</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">As maintainers of open source, we need to consider this group as much as possible. Since most passive contributors are simply users, the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/about/philosophy/\">user-focused philosophies</a> of the WordPress project help to keep this group front of mind.</p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full wp-lightbox-container\"><img alt=\"A man in a white shirt and black backpack leans against a chrome railing inside a building while looking at his phone. The man appears relaxed, with his weight resting on one leg and his other foot crossed over it. He holds the phone in one hand and seems to be scrolling through its contents.\" class=\"wp-image-10597 not-transparent\" height=\"4128\" src=\"https://jonathandesrosiers.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/02/53645e3e76c13ed0.89060804.jpg\" width=\"6192\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			<svg fill=\"none\" height=\"12\" viewBox=\"0 0 12 12\" width=\"12\" xmlns=\"http://www.w3.org/2000/svg\">\n				<path d=\"M2 0a2 2 0 0 0-2 2v2h1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 1 .5-.5h2V0H2Zm2 10.5H2a.5.5 0 0 1-.5-.5V8H0v2a2 2 0 0 0 2 2h2v-1.5ZM8 12v-1.5h2a.5.5 0 0 0 .5-.5V8H12v2a2 2 0 0 1-2 2H8Zm2-12a2 2 0 0 1 2 2v2h-1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 0-.5-.5H8V0h2Z\" fill=\"#fff\">\n			</svg>\n		</button><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\"><a href=\"https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/\">CC0</a> licensed <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/photos/photo/53645e3e76/\">photo</a> by <a href=\"https://blazejzablotny.pl/\">Blazej Zablotny</a> from the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/photos/\">WordPress Photo Directory</a>.</figcaption></figure>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-active-contributing\">Active Contributing</h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Conversely, if someone contributes to an open source project knowingly, they fall into the second type: active. These contributors are the backbone of every open source software project. They&#8217;re intentionally spending their time filing bug reports, building out new features and APIs, reviewing patches, translating strings, writing documentation, and so much more.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">In an ideal world, many more passive contributors are activated than the number of active ones who leave a project to ensure growth. But be warned, if you&#8217;re ill-prepared to support newly activated contributors, they can <a href=\"https://jonathandesrosiers.com/2025/07/the-ghosts-of-unactivated-contributors/\">easily become ghosts that quietly haunt the halls of your project</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"is-style-default wp-block-separator alignwide has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-some-additional-considerations\">Some Additional Considerations</h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I tried to clearly define these two buckets to encompass everyone. But like the question of &#8220;who can contribute?&#8221;, there is additional nuance to be aware of.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-awareness-of-passivity\">Awareness Of Passivity</h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">One important thing to note is that individuals may not even be aware of the fact that they are passively contributing. Some (likely most) have no idea about what contributing is or how it works. In other cases, someone can be aware and intentionally choose to remain passive.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">This was the case with Luke and the concerns he expressed about the implementation of the Notes feature. He is familiar enough with open source communities to understand that <a href=\"https://maintaine.rs/desrosj#the-value-of-presence\">decisions are made by those who show up</a>, but was also self-aware enough to recognize he was not properly prepared to engage. He intentionally chose to remain passive until he felt he had enough context to engage thoughtfully (which <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/64377\">he has since</a>).</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote alignwide has-text-align-center is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"\">By participating in discussions, contributing code, submitting bug reports or feature requests, or testing proposed changes, any individual can influence the direction of an Open Source project. By showing up, you ensure that your voice will be heard. But be aware, with presence comes responsibility. Showing up means being prepared, doing research, actively listening, and being thoughtful in your communication.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><a href=\"https://maintaine.rs/desrosj#the-value-of-presence\">Maintainers in the WordPress Project</a> &#8211; <a href=\"https://maintaine.rs/\">maintaine.rs</a> &#8211; Jonathan Desrosiers</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">As contributors gain experience, they&#8217;re often active in some ways and passive in others. For example, someone who spends their time creating patches is still contributing by passing the PHP version their site is using when sending update requests. Contributors also tend to find the areas of a code base that they enjoy working the most and to focus their efforts there. When this happens they choose to be passive for the rest of the code.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-transitioning-unknowingly\">Transitioning Unknowingly</h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">It&#8217;s also common for someone to be completely unaware of the fact that they have &#8220;activated&#8221;. Let&#8217;s say you are experiencing a problem with your site and open a support ticket. On the surface it may seem like you are just seeking help with the issue that&#8217;s affecting your site. But it&#8217;s actually pretty common that support requests are the first sign of a larger bug or edge case affecting many users.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">This is a great opportunity to help them recognize that they&#8217;re contributing. &#8220;Thank you for taking the time to create this report!&#8221; Be transparent about the process and answer any questions they have. Where can they follow along with the process? What is the process? And continue to engage with this person throughout the lifecycle of the report.</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li class=\"\">&#8220;This seems to be due to X and as a result Y happens.&#8221; &#8211; Explain the concept behind what&#8217;s going on to pique their interest.</li>\n\n\n\n<li class=\"\">&#8220;It&#8217;s likely that any site using feature Z is experiencing this.&#8221; &#8211; Shows them the importance of their report. It&#8217;s not just you, and you&#8217;ve helped the software improve for many other users.</li>\n\n\n\n<li class=\"\">&#8220;There is a fix available in the form of a patch/hotfix plugin/nightly build. Would you be able to test using that to confirm the issue is resolved for you?&#8221; &#8211; Bring them along on the journey and show them how the sausage is made.</li>\n\n\n\n<li class=\"\">&#8220;Thanks again for the report and helping to improve PROJECT.&#8221;  &#8211; Their time was valuable and the result was meaningful.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">If you spend any time talking to contributors, you&#8217;ll find that this is a <em>very</em> common path for discovering how to contribute to open source. Make this second nature and weave it into the culture of your project to ensure that no opportunity to grow the contributor base is missed.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-a-healthy-balance\">A Healthy Balance</h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Even when maintainers have invested a considerable amount of time and effort into creating forms of passive contribution, <strong>passive contribution has a very low ceiling and will never sustain a project by itself</strong>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">In education there is a metric called the <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student%E2%80%93teacher_ratio\">student-teacher ratio</a>, which is a way to estimate the number of students per teacher in each classroom within a school. Though it doesn&#8217;t always work out this way, the idea is that a lower student-teacher ratio will result in a higher quality education.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote alignwide has-text-align-center is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"\">Classes with too many students are often disruptive to education. Also, too many students in a class results in a diverse field of students, with varying degrees of learning ability. Consequently, the class will spend time for less academic students to assimilate the information, when that time could be better spent progressing through the curriculum. In this way, student–teacher ratios are compelling arguments for advanced or honors classes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student%E2%80%93teacher_ratio\">Student-teacher ratio &#8211; Wikipedia</a></p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">There are several variations of this concept at play within open source.</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li class=\"\">The ratio of users to contributors.</li>\n\n\n\n<li class=\"\">The ratio of active to passive contributors.</li>\n\n\n\n<li class=\"\">The ratio of active contributors to those <em>trying</em> to become more involved (seeking mentorship).</li>\n\n\n\n<li class=\"\">The ratio of mentors who are actually <em>available</em> to those seeking to be mentored.</li>\n\n\n\n<li class=\"\">The ratio of contributors who have write access (Core Committers) to those who don&#8217;t.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large wp-lightbox-container\"><img alt=\"Rockhounding and colorful rocks on a southern Oregon beach.\" class=\"wp-image-10601 not-transparent\" height=\"576\" src=\"https://jonathandesrosiers.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/02/41964067404569fe1.10957269-1024x576.jpg\" width=\"1024\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			<svg fill=\"none\" height=\"12\" viewBox=\"0 0 12 12\" width=\"12\" xmlns=\"http://www.w3.org/2000/svg\">\n				<path d=\"M2 0a2 2 0 0 0-2 2v2h1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 1 .5-.5h2V0H2Zm2 10.5H2a.5.5 0 0 1-.5-.5V8H0v2a2 2 0 0 0 2 2h2v-1.5ZM8 12v-1.5h2a.5.5 0 0 0 .5-.5V8H12v2a2 2 0 0 1-2 2H8Zm2-12a2 2 0 0 1 2 2v2h-1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 0-.5-.5H8V0h2Z\" fill=\"#fff\">\n			</svg>\n		</button><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\"><a href=\"https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/\">CC0</a> licensed <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/photos/photo/4196406740/\">photo</a> by <a href=\"https://jenniferbourn.com/\">Jennifer Bourn</a> from the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/photos/\">WordPress Photo Directory</a>.</figcaption></figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Each of these ratios could help shine a light on an area of a project that is struggling. Just like there&#8217;s no widely accepted student-teacher ratio that every school should strive for, there&#8217;s no one-size-fits-all formula for the ideal ratio of each of these. It&#8217;s safe to say that the actual ratio is often nowhere close to an appropriate level. Unfortunately, this often results in maintainer burnout.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-equal-opportunity-vs-equal-outcome\">Equal Opportunity vs. Equal Outcome</h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Open source is at its best when opportunity is equal, but not necessarily contributions or outcomes. Every contribution is different, and that’s a <em>good</em> thing. But when everyone has the same opportunity to contribute, the number of participants will increase along with the diversity of experience, knowledge, and thought. This will naturally result in better solutions.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote alignwide has-text-align-center is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"is-style-text-title is-style-text-title--2\">“Given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow.”</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linus%27s_law\">Linus&#8217;s Law</a></p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I understand that a state of true equity of opportunity is utopian. There will always be differences in socioeconomic, cultural, familial situations, etc. But as maintainers, we need to remain vigilant to ensure everyone has the opportunity they deserve. After all, that&#8217;s what open source is all about: a chance to participate.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-encouraging-a-fluid-state\">Encouraging A Fluid State</h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><a href=\"https://www.selectsoftwarereviews.com/blog/employee-retention-statistics#strongstatistics-on-the-cost-of-employee-turnoverstrong\">Many studies have found</a> that the cost of replacing an employee could cost upwards of 300% <em>more</em> than the previous employee&#8217;s salary. This includes the cost to terminate the employee, recruitment, hiring, on-boarding, lost opportunity while the position is vacant, and the loss of productivity as the new hire goes through a learning curve.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Consider this concept in the context of open source. The majority of OSS projects barely have enough resources to keep things running smoothly. Dealing with a 300% cost increase can be very detrimental, if not lethal, to the overall health of the project. It&#8217;s in everyone&#8217;s best interest to retain active contributors instead of dealing with the high costs of finding and training new contributors.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Allowing, encouraging, and respecting when contributors ebb and flow between an active and passive state is one way to help lower the risk of someone churning out of your project completely. Yes, they are not actively contributing when choosing to be passive. But when they feel entrusted to adjust their contributing patterns any time they need or want to, they still feel like part of the project. They are capable and knowledgeable enough to return anytime they choose, and that is much easier than a brand new contributor starting from scratch.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">That&#8217;s not to say all on-boarding is bad! It&#8217;s usually a <em>good</em> sign when new contributors are joining a project. But it&#8217;s a concerning signal when it&#8217;s consistently a net-negative, or even a net-neutral pattern.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-non-human-contribution\">Non-human Contribution</h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Though there&#8217;s no human requirement to contribute, <a href=\"https://jonathandesrosiers.com/2025/07/implementing-ai-in-open-source-without-losing-the-human-touch/\">open source communities flourish because of community and strong human connections</a>. Right now, AI is a passive <em>consumer</em> of software (or at least the documentation and other related materials). But since AI tools don&#8217;t actually <em>use</em> the software, they bypass passive contribution and <a href=\"https://dri.es/ai-is-a-business-model-stress-test\">exclusively extract value in a one-way transaction</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I also think it&#8217;s fair to say AI tools cannot actively contribute on their own. They require a human to make use of them while actively contributing. That said, these tools have the potential to amplify someone’s abilities and capacity. </p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-a-note-about-makers-and-takers\">A Note About Makers And Takers</h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">A disproportionate number of passive contributors can be extremely damaging to an open source project. This is especially true when organizations and companies who are generating revenue purposefully choose to remain passive. <a href=\"https://dri.es/\">Dries Buytaert</a>, the creator of <a href=\"https://www.drupal.org/\">Drupal</a>, has described this as the &#8220;<a href=\"https://dri.es/balancing-makers-and-takers-to-scale-and-sustain-open-source\">maker-taker problem</a>&#8220;.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">As I defined what active and passive contributions are to provide context, I came to the realization that in many ways I&#8217;m trying to describe a similar problem. However, there are some key differences to what I&#8217;m exploring here. Dries explores project sustainability and what that means under a financial and governance lens. While the background I&#8217;ve shared so far may resemble the maker-taker problem, I’m focused on how and when to participate when you have criticism. </p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-criticism-as-a-contribution\">Criticism As A Contribution</h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">So let&#8217;s return to the questions from the beginning: When is it acceptable to be critical? Is it fair to offer criticism when you don&#8217;t have all the information? Just like telemetry can help paint the full picture using data points, criticism can help maintainers understand what&#8217;s working and what&#8217;s not. The more feedback loops that exist between maintainers and different stakeholders, the better. It&#8217;s natural to be apprehensive about coming forward to condemn the work that has been done. But if something concerns you or doesn&#8217;t fit your use cases, it&#8217;s important to speak up.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Here are some tips to help you have the right mindset so your insight can have the most impact.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-silos-help-no-one\">Silos Help No One</h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Learning together is better than learning in a silo. When you voice concerns or questions publicly, you&#8217;re not just advocating for yourself. You&#8217;re likely representing many others who share the same confusion or frustration but haven&#8217;t spoken up yet.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Luke is an experienced community member, so his bar for what constitutes a &#8220;quality&#8221; contribution is quite high. But his hesitation on the podcast actually illustrates an important point: by discussing his concerns openly (even while acknowledging his incomplete knowledge), he invites others into the learning process. The conversation itself becomes valuable, prompting everyone to explore technical decisions together.</p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full wp-lightbox-container\"><img alt=\"Looking through a rock formation at a seaside fisherman courageously casts his line as a storm approaches Beavertail Lighthouse in Rhode Island.\" class=\"wp-image-10528 not-transparent\" height=\"4000\" src=\"https://jonathandesrosiers.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/61365a83787ce7b45.52175946.jpg\" width=\"6000\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			<svg fill=\"none\" height=\"12\" viewBox=\"0 0 12 12\" width=\"12\" xmlns=\"http://www.w3.org/2000/svg\">\n				<path d=\"M2 0a2 2 0 0 0-2 2v2h1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 1 .5-.5h2V0H2Zm2 10.5H2a.5.5 0 0 1-.5-.5V8H0v2a2 2 0 0 0 2 2h2v-1.5ZM8 12v-1.5h2a.5.5 0 0 0 .5-.5V8H12v2a2 2 0 0 1-2 2H8Zm2-12a2 2 0 0 1 2 2v2h-1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 0-.5-.5H8V0h2Z\" fill=\"#fff\">\n			</svg>\n		</button><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\"><a href=\"https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/\">CC0</a> licensed <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/photos/photo/61365a8378/\">photo</a> by <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/photos/author/maverick3x6/\">Jeff Golenski</a> from the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/photos/\">WordPress Photo Directory</a>.</figcaption></figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">When you keep your criticism private or wait until you have &#8220;complete&#8221; knowledge, you miss opportunities for collaborative problem-solving. Sometimes the act of asking &#8220;why was it built this way?&#8221; in public forums leads to documentation improvements, clearer architectural decision records, or simply helps other contributors understand the reasoning.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-research-is-not-everything\">Research Is Not Everything</h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I mentioned above that showing up comes with the responsibility to be prepared. While it&#8217;s true that researching before engaging can be very helpful, it&#8217;s not a steadfast requirement, provided you approach the conversation with humility, genuine curiosity, and the desire to help.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">There&#8217;s a balance to strike here. Some research shows good faith and respect for the contributors who came before you. It demonstrates you&#8217;ve tried to understand the context. But perfectionism about having complete knowledge can become a barrier to participation.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">The key is being transparent about what you do and don&#8217;t know: &#8220;I&#8217;ve looked through the related tickets on Trac and the PR where the feature was built, but I&#8217;m not seeing where the decision about using the Comments API was discussed. Can someone point me to that conversation?&#8221; is far more productive than either staying silent or declaring &#8220;This was obviously the wrong choice.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Your questions and criticisms are still valuable even when they come from incomplete understanding, as long as you frame them as questions and criticisms, not pronouncements.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-a-voice-not-a-vote\">A Voice, Not A Vote</h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Showing up does not grant you a vote, no matter how prepared, informed, or experienced you are. This can be a difficult reality to accept, especially if you&#8217;ve spent considerable time researching an issue or crafting a well-reasoned argument.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">But understanding this distinction is liberating. Your goal in offering criticism isn&#8217;t to force a particular outcome. It&#8217;s to ensure your perspective is heard and considered. Decisions in open source are ultimately made by those who do the work and maintain the code. Your criticism contributes valuable perspective to that decision-making process, but the decision itself belongs to the maintainers who will live with the consequences.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote alignwide has-text-align-center is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"\">When a change is made to a code base, the committer making that change is taking on a lot of extra responsibility. In some ways, they now own that change and any resulting test failures, bugs, features built on top of the change, or even security issues that may follow. They must be willing to stand behind the changes they make until new rationale is presented.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><a href=\"https://maintaine.rs/desrosj#maintainers-are-the-code-they-commit\">Maintainers in the WordPress Project</a> &#8211; <a href=\"https://maintaine.rs/\">maintaine.rs</a> &#8211; Jonathan Desrosiers</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">This is why the <em>how</em> of criticism matters so much. Criticism framed as demands or accusations puts maintainers on the defensive. Criticism framed as genuine questions and concerns begins a dialogue. &#8220;I&#8217;m worried this approach will cause problems with X&#8221; invites discussion. &#8220;You should have done Y instead&#8221; closes it.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-the-responsibility-of-voice\">The Responsibility of Voice</h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Luke eventually did engage with his concerns about the Notes feature, and the WordPress community is better for it. His journey from hesitation to informed participation is a model worth emulating: acknowledge what you don&#8217;t know, do some research, but don&#8217;t let the pursuit of perfect knowledge stop you from contributing your perspective.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">The next time you find yourself frustrated with a technical decision or concerned about a direction your favorite open source project is taking, remember: your criticism is a contribution. The question isn&#8217;t whether you have the right to speak (you do). The question is how you&#8217;ll use that voice to make the project stronger for everyone.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-right has-small-font-size\"><em>Featured image credit: <a href=\"https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/\">CC0</a> licensed <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/photos/photo/4086355e20/\">photo</a> by <a href=\"https://naoko.blog/\">Naoko Takano</a> from the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/photos/\">WordPress Photo Directory</a>.</em></p>\n<p>The post <a href=\"https://jonathandesrosiers.com/2026/02/offering-criticism-in-open-source-projects/\">Offering Criticism in Open Source Projects</a> appeared first on <a href=\"https://jonathandesrosiers.com\">Jonathan Desrosiers</a>.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 03 Feb 2026 15:20:40 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:19:\"Jonathan Desrosiers\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:6;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"Open Channels FM: On Being Flexible\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:33:\"https://openchannels.fm/?p=114533\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:42:\"https://openchannels.fm/on-being-flexible/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:108:\"Over the years there has been one single piece of advice I have given small business owners and freelancers.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 02 Feb 2026 13:38:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:7;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:127:\"Gutenberg Times: Navigation Overlays, WordPress 7.0, Interactivity API Helper, AI Skills, and  #WCAsia — Weekend Edition #355\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?p=44172\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:127:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/navigation-overlays-wordpress-7-0-interactivity-api-helper-ai-skills-and-wcasia-weekend-edition-355/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:25910:\"<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Hi, there <img alt=\"👋\" class=\"wp-smiley\" src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/17.0.2/72x72/1f44b.png\" style=\"height: 1em;\" /></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">this week, you&#8217;ll find a great mix of new releases, new tools, new plugins and events. </p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Outside the WordPress sphere I signed up for the <a href=\"https://events.humanitix.com/fediforum-un-workshop-growing-the-open-social-web-2026-03\">FediForum Un-Workshop</a>, an event bringing together people who will discuss obstacles and ideas on growing the Open Social Web. It&#8217;ll be a three-hour virtual event on March 2, 2026. It&#8217;s NOT on the same day as <strong>Human Made&#8217;s WP:26</strong> event, which takes place 10 days later. </p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I hope you enjoy this week&#8217;s edition and I wish you a great weekend! </p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Yours, <img alt=\"💕\" class=\"wp-smiley\" src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/17.0.2/72x72/1f495.png\" style=\"height: 1em;\" /><br /><em>Birgit</em></p>\n\n\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Human Made </strong>announced <a href=\"https://humanmade.com/wordpress-in-2026-event/\"><strong>WP:26</strong></a>, a virtual event on March 12th exploring where WordPress is heading this year. You&#8217;ll hear from Mary Hubbard (WordPress executive director), speakers from Pantheon, Yoast, News UK, and PMC on topics like hybrid CMS architectures, agentic AI systems, and the CMS as orchestration layer. Following last year&#8217;s WP:25 with 700+ attendees, this one targets digital leaders, architects, and teams betting on WordPress long-term—registration is open now. It&#8217;s free and will be recorded, I reckon. </p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2026/updates/\">WordCamp Asia communication team</a> </strong>is publishing great content to get ready for the event: <a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2026/event-pass/?refresh=true#get-your-pass\">Tickets are still available</a>, <a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2026/call-for-sponsors/\">Sponsorships as well </a>and you can learn more about <a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2026/things-to-do-in-mumbai/\">Mumbai</a>, <a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2026/namaste-india-guide-to-indian-culture/\">Indian culture</a> and <a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2026/mumbai-on-a-plate/\">food</a>. The WordCamp will take place between April 9 and 11, 2026. The <a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2026/category/speakers/\">first rounds of speakers</a> are announced, too. Will I see you there? It would be wonderful to meet you! You are welcome to use <a href=\"https://calendly.com/pauli-haack/wcasia\">my public calendar to schedule a meeting</a>. </p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2026/category/speakers/\"><img alt=\"Announced speakers WordCamp Asia 2026\" class=\"wp-image-44227\" height=\"158\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/Screenshot-2026-01-31-at-11.24.05.png?resize=652%2C158&#038;ssl=1\" width=\"652\" /></a></figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em>If WordCamp Asia is not on your radar, check out the <a href=\"https://central.wordcamp.org/schedule/\">WordCamp calendar</a> for in person or educational event closer to you or on a different date. </em></p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"0-word-press-release-information\">Developing Gutenberg and WordPress</h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2026/01/30/wordpress-6-9-1-rc1-is-now-available/\"><strong>WordPress 6.9.1 RC1 is now available</strong></a>. Led by <strong>Aaron Jorbin</strong> and <strong>Aki Hamano</strong>, the final release is planned for February 3, 2026. You can test using the Beta Tester plugin, WP-CLI, or a direct download. This maintenance release addresses bugs introduced in 6.9, with 23 Core fixes and 25 Block Editor fixes. Notable corrections include mail function errors, broken styling on the Add Plugins screen, widget accessibility issues, and several Interactivity API router fixes. </p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/releases/tag/v22.5.0-rc.1\"><strong>Gutenberg 22.5 RC 1</strong></a> is also available for testing. The final release is scheduled for February 4, 2025. It will bring practical refinements for your editing workflow. You can now add <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/pull/73959\">custom CSS to individual blocks</a>, and the Image block shows <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/pull/74519\">aspect ratio controls for wide and full alignments</a>. List View gets more useful with <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/pull/74798\">full block titles</a> and <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/pull/74794\">actual content displayed for list items</a>. The release also stabilizes viewport-based block visibility and pattern editing, plus adds focal point controls for fixed Cover backgrounds and text column support for Paragraphs.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Mary Hubbard</strong>, executive director of WordPress open-source project,  outlines the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/project/2026/01/23/big-picture-goals-for-2026/\">big picture goals for WordPress in 2026</a>, signaling a return to three releases annually with WordPress 7.0 arriving at WordCamp Asia. You&#8217;ll see real-time co-editing move into Phase 3: Collaboration, client-side media processing graduate to Core, and new blocks like Tabs and Icon ship out of the box. </p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">What I am most excited about is Hubbard&#8217;s emphasis on WordPress meetups as the primary front door to contribution and calls on Make teams to prepare clearer onboarding paths for incoming contributors. If there isn&#8217;t a WordPress Meetup in your city or region, the community team would love to help you start one. Before my year-end vacation I collaborated with co-organizers, and we revitalized the <a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/munchen-wordpress-meetup/\">München WordPress Meetup</a>. If you are in the city,<a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/munchen-wordpress-meetup/events/313062167/\"> join us on February 11 at 19:00.</a> Or every second Wednesday of the month. </p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Anne McCarthy</strong> shares her latest round of <a href=\"https://nomad.blog/2026/01/23/exploring-work-in-progress-for-wordpress-7-0/\"><strong>exploring work in progress for WordPress 7.0</strong></a>, with beta 1 just weeks away. You&#8217;ll find hands-on looks at real-time collaboration transport layers, visual revisions, responsive block hiding, customizable navigation overlays, and the Cover block&#8217;s new video embed support. The Gallery block gains lightbox navigation, while Tabs and Breadcrumbs blocks continue maturing. McCarthy encourages you to test via WordPress Playground and to leave feedback on GitHub.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><br /><strong>David Smith</strong> posted a <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/2026/01/27/call-for-testing-customizable-navigation-mobile-overlays/\"><strong>call for testing customizable navigation mobile overlays</strong></a> targeting WordPress 7.0. This feature finally gives you full control over mobile hamburger menus using blocks and patterns—add branding, calls-to-action, images, and custom styling instead of being stuck with WordPress defaults. Overlays are saved as template parts, so themes can ship their own variations. Feedback is requested by February 9th, with a <a href=\"https://playground.wordpress.net/?gutenberg-branch=test%2Fcontent-only-patterns-experiment&amp;blueprint-url=https%3A%2F%2Fgist.githubusercontent.com%2Fgetdave%2Fdcaf203c16e7362a2e00f85b04e67404%2Fraw\">ready-to-go Playground instance</a> for quick testing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Your feedback would ddirectly shapes what ships in core—catching bugs, validating UX decisions, and surfacing edge cases before millions of sites receive the update. It&#8217;s one of the most impactful ways to contribute to WordPress without writing code, and the Test Team provides clear scenarios and templates for reporting issues. Give it a whirl, and learn first hand how this new feature works. </p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-light-background-background-color has-background\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><img alt=\"🎙\" class=\"wp-smiley\" src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/17.0.2/72x72/1f399.png\" style=\"height: 1em;\" /> The latest episode is <a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-125-wordpress-6-9-gutenberg-22-1-and-gutenberg-22-2/\">Gutenberg Changelog #125 – WordPress 6.9, Gutenberg 22.1 and Gutenberg 22.2</a> with <strong>JC Palmes</strong>, WebDev Studios</p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full is-style-no-vertical-margin\"><img alt=\"Gutenberg Changelog 125 with JC Palmes and host Birgit Pauli-Haack\" class=\"wp-image-43283\" height=\"186\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/11/Screenshot-2025-11-28-at-18.19.29.png?resize=652%2C186&#038;ssl=1\" width=\"652\" /></figure>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-showhide ng-block\" width=\"100%\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-rich is-provider-pocket-casts wp-block-embed-pocket-casts\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div></figure>\n</div></div></div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Ryan Welcher</strong> highlights the most important updates from the <em>What&#8217;s New for Developer (January 2026)</em> post in his latest video: <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSkiV7yvUD0\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Responsive Grids, PHP Blocks, Smarter Tools: WordPress in January</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-showhide ng-block\" width=\"100%\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div></figure>\n</div>\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Brandon Payton</strong> published <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2026/01/new-ai-agent-skill/\">wp-playground</a>, a new AI agent skill that lets tools like Claude Code and Codex run WordPress via the Playground CLI for fast, repeatable testing. The skill auto-detects where your code belongs—mounting plugins or themes by recognizing file signatures—and reduces the &#8220;ready to test&#8221; moment from roughly a minute to a few seconds. You can install it via <code>npx openskills install WordPress/agent-skills</code>, and contributions are welcome at the new <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/agent-skills/\">WordPress/agent-skills</a> repository.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"0-p\">Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners</h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Varun Dubey</strong>&#8216;s comprehensive look at <a href=\"https://vapvarun.com/gutenberg-blocks-2026-wordpress-block-editor-ai-era/\"><strong>Gutenberg blocks in 2026 and WordPress development in the AI era</strong></a> walks you through how the block revolution has fundamentally shifted WordPress workflows. You&#8217;ll find practical guidance on when to choose patterns over custom blocks, explore emerging AI tools like WordPress Telex and Kadence&#8217;s inline generation, and understand why block metadata makes AI integration particularly powerful. Solid reading whether you&#8217;re building blocks or simply trying to keep pace with where WordPress is heading.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Troy Chaplin</strong>&#8216;s <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/block-finder/\">Block Finder plugin</a> gives you a dashboard metabox to quickly locate any core or custom Gutenberg block across your entire site. You can filter by post type, detect InnerBlocks nested within parent containers, and jump directly to editing posts containing specific blocks. Particularly handy if you&#8217;re managing large-scale migrations or hunting down where a particular block lives—one reviewer credited it with helping audit over 700 sites during a Classic-to-Gutenberg transition.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Weston Ruter</strong> released <a href=\"https://weston.ruter.net/2026/01/19/post-date-block-published-modified/\">Post Date Block: Published &amp; Modified</a>, a plugin addressing a long-standing gap in the Date block. You can now display both publish and modified dates when they differ—with configurable prefixes, suffixes, and single-line or two-line layouts. The plugin uses the HTML Tag Processor to inject clean markup with proper microformat classes, and it&#8217;s now live on WordPress.org. Ruter positions it as a prototype until something similar lands in core, possibly via the upcoming Shortblocks feature.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">On the <a href=\"https://wpbuilds.com/2026/01/15/452-exploring-folioblocks-michael-campanellas-wordpress-gallery-plugin-for-photographers/\">WP Builds podcast episode 452</a>, <strong>Nathan Wrigley</strong> chats with photographer and developer <strong>Michael Campanella</strong> about <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/folioblocks/\">FolioBlocks</a>, his block-based gallery plugin built from a working photographer&#8217;s perspective. You&#8217;ll hear about grid, justified, masonry, carousel, and the clever modular gallery that uses rows and stacks for visual priority. The plugin includes real-time filtering via comma-separated keywords, WooCommerce integration for selling prints, and image downloads—all with true visual parity between editor and frontend.</p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/folioblocks/\"><img alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-44214\" height=\"422\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/FolioBlocks.jpg?resize=652%2C422&#038;ssl=1\" width=\"652\" /></a></figure>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"2-word-press-6-0-1-and-6-1-scheduled\">Theme Development for Full Site Editing and Blocks</h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Kadim Gültekin&#8217;</strong>s <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/block-theme-color-switcher/\"><strong>Block Theme Color Switcher</strong></a> lets your visitors preview every style variation your block theme offers without you creating multiple demo sites. The plugin automatically parses theme.json and the styles folder to generate a floating frontend menu where users can swap color palettes instantly—no page reload required. Selections persist via localStorage, making it particularly useful for theme developers showcasing their work or sites offering accessibility options like high-contrast modes.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Johanne Courtright</strong>&#8216;s tutorial on <a href=\"https://groundworx.dev/resources/stop-fighting-your-layouts-the-real-power-of-css-grid/\">the real power of CSS Grid</a> goes well beyond basic column setups into territory useful for theme builders. You&#8217;ll learn how <code>minmax()</code> creates flexible-yet-constrained layouts, how named grid lines with <code>-start</code> and <code>-end</code> suffixes unlock implicit areas, and how <code>grid-template-areas</code> lets you draw layouts in code. The full-width breakout pattern—achieving edge-to-edge elements without negative margins—offers a cleaner alternative to the margin-based approach WordPress core currently uses for wide and full alignments.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press\">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor.</h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Ryan Welcher</strong> released <a href=\"https://github.com/ryanwelcher/wordpress-interactivity-api-helper\">WordPress Interactivity API Helper</a>, a VS Code extension that brings intelligent autocomplete and validation to <code>data-wp-*</code> directives. You get context-aware suggestions for state, actions, and callbacks based on detected stores in your PHP and JavaScript files, plus warnings for duplicate directives and undefined namespaces with typo suggestions. If you&#8217;re building interactive blocks and find yourself constantly referencing the documentation for directive syntax, this extension should smooth out your workflow considerably. Go to <strong>Extension &gt; Search for <code>Interactivity</code></strong> and install. </p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><a href=\"https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=ryanwelcher.wordpress-interactivity-api-helper\"><img alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-44201\" height=\"435\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/Screenshot-2026-01-30-at-17.37.50.png?resize=652%2C435&#038;ssl=1\" width=\"652\" /></a></figure>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nick Diego</strong> announced <a href=\"https://wordpress.com/blog/2026/01/27/wordpress-studio-1-7-0-new-studio-cli/\"><strong>WordPress Studio 1.7.0 with a major CLI upgrade</strong></a> that turns the command line into a full-featured companion for local development. You can now create, start, stop, and delete local sites entirely from the terminal, plus run WP-CLI commands without installing it yourself—Studio handles all the environment configuration. Diego walks through practical examples of pairing the CLI with AI coding tools like Claude Code and Cursor, where agents can spin up sites, run diagnostics, and deploy preview sites without you touching the Studio UI.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>JuanMa Garrido</strong>&#8216;s <a href=\"https://github.com/juanmaguitar/wpsmith\">WPSmith</a> brings the Laravel <code>php artisan</code> experience to WordPress, wrapping Playground&#8217;s CLI and WP-CLI into one streamlined tool. You can spin up disposable sites with <code>wpsmith new</code>, manage database snapshots via checkpoint and rollback commands, reset to fresh state, or seed test data—workflows that don&#8217;t yet exist in tool like <em><a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.com/docs/developer-tools/studio/cli/\">Studio&#8217;s CLI</a></em>. Scaffold shortcuts like <code>forge:plugin</code> and <code>forge:block</code> round out the toolkit. It&#8217;s designed for both developers and AI agents working entirely from the terminal.You can take a glimspe on <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzCrTWyKnI8\"><em>how it works on YouTube</em></a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><a href=\"https://github.com/juanmaguitar/wpsmith\"><img alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-44213\" height=\"304\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/WPSmith-JuanMa-Garrido.jpg?resize=542%2C304&#038;ssl=1\" width=\"542\" /></a></figure>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"wordpress-and-ai\">WordPress and AI </h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">On his personal blog, <strong>Jonathan Bossenger</strong> shared <a href=\"https://jonathanbossenger.com/four-wordpress-apps-i-built-with-ai-that-i-use-every-day/\">four WordPress apps he built with AI</a> that he uses daily. You&#8217;ll find </p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>WP Debug for quick access to WordPress debug logs, </li>\n\n\n\n<li>WP SQLite for inspecting WordPress Studio databases, </li>\n\n\n\n<li>WP Mail for capturing local emails during development, and </li>\n\n\n\n<li>WP Shell for running PHP snippets. </li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Each scratches a specific itch without a steep learning curve—and in a fun twist, the post itself was largely AI-generated using the WP AI Client.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In his latest video &#8220;<a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czH6fV6z4Eg\"><strong>Benchmarking AI models for WordPress development</strong></a>&#8221; , Bossenger walks you through getting started with <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/ai/2026/01/14/introducing-wp-bench-a-wordpress-ai-benchmark/\">WP Bench</a>, the AI benchmarking tool for WordPress development tasks. You&#8217;ll follow along as he clones the repository, sets up the Python environment, and configures API keys. The real fun comes when he pits his MacBook against an Intel workstation, testing local and cloud models including GPT, Claude Sonnet, Qwen Coder, and Deepseek Coder to see which delivers the best performance for WordPress coding workflows.</p>\n\n\n<div class=\"ng-block-8212e1e1957cb06b wp-block-newsletterglue-container ng-block\" style=\"color: #666666;\" width=\"100%\"><div><div><div class=\"ng-block-vs ng-block-vs-1\" colspan=\"3\" height=\"0\" style=\"height: 0px;\"></div></div><div><div class=\"ng-block-hs ng-block-hs-1\" height=\"0\" style=\"width: 0px;\"></div><div align=\"none\" class=\"ng-block-td\" style=\"font-size: 16px; font-family: Helvetica; line-height: 1.6; font-weight: normal; padding-top: 20px; padding-bottom: 20px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; text-align: none; color: #666666; background-color: #f8f8f8; border-radius: 8px;\"><div class=\"ng-block-6d04d5b2590e48fb wp-block-newsletterglue-text ng-block\" style=\"color: #666666;\" width=\"100%\"><div><div><div align=\"none\" class=\"ng-block-td\" style=\"font-size: 16px; font-family: Helvetica; line-height: 1.6; font-weight: normal; padding-top: 8px; padding-bottom: 10px; padding-left: 20px; padding-right: 20px; text-align: none; color: #666666;\"><p><strong><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/need-a-zip-from-master/\">Need a plugin .zip from Gutenberg&#8217;s master branch?</a></strong><br />Gutenberg Times provides daily build for testing and review.</p></div></div></div></div>\n\n<div class=\"ng-block-eb5e50a84f19c67a wp-block-newsletterglue-image ng-block size-full is-resized\" width=\"100%\"><div><div><div align=\"center\" class=\"ng-block-td\" style=\"padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px;\"><a href=\"https://playground.wordpress.net/?blueprint-url=https://gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/playnightly.json\"><img alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-42874 ng-image\" height=\"45\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Screenshot-2025-11-15-at-12.06.44.png?resize=196%2C45&#038;ssl=1\" style=\"border-style: none; border-color: transparent;\" width=\"196\" /></a></div></div></div></div>\n\n<div class=\"ng-block-c85ea98bec650a04 wp-block-newsletterglue-text ng-block\" style=\"color: #666666;\" width=\"100%\"><div><div><div align=\"none\" class=\"ng-block-td\" style=\"font-size: 16px; font-family: Helvetica; line-height: 1.6; font-weight: normal; padding-top: 8px; padding-bottom: 10px; padding-left: 20px; padding-right: 20px; text-align: none; color: #666666;\"><p>Now also available via <a href=\"https://playground.wordpress.net/?blueprint-url=https://gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/playnightly.json\">WordPress Playground</a>. There is no need for a test site locally or on a server. Have you been using it? <a href=\"mailto:pauli@gutenbergtimes.com\">Email me </a>with your experience.</p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=\"ng-block-hs ng-block-hs-2\" height=\"0\" style=\"width: 0px;\"></div></div><div><div class=\"ng-block-vs ng-block-vs-2\" colspan=\"3\" height=\"0\" style=\"height: 0px;\"></div></div></div></div>\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-center has-small-font-size wp-block-paragraph\"><em>Questions? Suggestions? Ideas? </em><br /><em>Don&#8217;t hesitate to send <a href=\"mailto:pauli@gutenbergtimes.com\">them via email</a> or</em><br /><em> send me a message on WordPress Slack or Twitter @bph</em>.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-center has-small-font-size wp-block-paragraph\">For questions to be answered on the <a href=\"http://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast\">Gutenberg Changelog</a>, <br />send them to <a href=\"mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com\">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a></p>\n\n\n<div class=\"ng-block-03e33fa4da4feabe wp-block-newsletterglue-separator ng-block\" style=\"color: #666666;\" width=\"100%\"><div><div><div align=\"center\" class=\"ng-block-td\" style=\"padding-top: 20px; padding-bottom: 20px; padding-left: 20px; padding-right: 20px; color: #666666;\"><hr style=\"background-color: transparent; color: transparent; margin: 0; border: 0; border-top: 1px solid #666666; width: 560px; height: 0;\" /></div></div></div></div>\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-showhide ng-block\" width=\"100%\"><div class=\"ng-block-a6768a550e009cfe wp-block-newsletterglue-text ng-block\" style=\"color: #666666;\" width=\"100%\"><div><div><div align=\"none\" class=\"ng-block-td\" style=\"font-size: 14px; font-family: Helvetica; line-height: 0.2; font-weight: normal; padding-top: 8px; padding-bottom: 10px; padding-left: 20px; padding-right: 20px; text-align: none; color: #666666;\"><p></p></div></div></div></div></div>\n\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sat, 31 Jan 2026 03:50:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:18:\"Birgit Pauli-Haack\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:8;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:52:\"WordPress.org blog: New AI Agent Skill for WordPress\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=19798\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:54:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2026/01/new-ai-agent-skill/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4931:\"<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Faster Way For AI Agents To Test</h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">AI code agents are getting better at writing WordPress plugins and themes, but testing can still be the slow part. WordPress contributor <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bpayton/\">Brandon Payton</a> has published wp-playground, a new AI agent skill designed to run WordPress via the Playground CLI<strong>, </strong>giving agents a fast, repeatable way to run WordPress and verify their work as they iterate.<br /></p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">&#8220;AI agents work better when they have a clear feedback loop. That’s why I made the wp-playground skill. It gives agents an easy way to test WordPress code and makes building and experimenting with WordPress a lot more accessible.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">&#8212; Brandon Payton, WordPress Contributor</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What the Playground skill does</h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When launched, the skill starts WordPress and detects where the current code should live inside a WordPress install. For example, it can mount a plugin into wp-content/plugins or a theme into wp-content/themes by recognizing common file signatures (such as plugin headers or a theme’s style.css). This helps agents move from “generated code” to “running site” with fewer manual steps.<br /></p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-cover wp-elements-1323ebcb3edbff2bde6000899ed39b56\"><span class=\"wp-block-cover__background has-background-dim-80 has-background-dim\"></span><div class=\"wp-block-cover__inner-container is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-cover-is-layout-063a8677 wp-block-cover-is-layout-constrained\">\n<p class=\"has-text-align-center has-off-white-2-color has-text-color has-link-color has-eb-garamond-font-family has-huge-font-size wp-elements-11d5ec75ba50354c745eeb5f70fa912c wp-block-paragraph\" style=\"margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0;\"><strong>Install and try it today.</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-center wp-block-paragraph\">Find more information on this GitHub link:</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-buttons is-content-justification-center is-layout-flex wp-container-core-buttons-is-layout-a89b3969 wp-block-buttons-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-button\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link has-blue-1-background-color has-background has-eb-garamond-font-family has-large-font-size has-custom-font-size wp-element-button\" href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/agent-skills/\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\"><strong>WordPress AI Agent Skills</strong></a></div>\n</div>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Early results and testing workflow</h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In testing, agents were able to start WordPress, build playful plugins, and validate behavior in a tight feedback loop. Once Playground was running, the agent alternated between tools such as curl and Playwright to interact with WordPress, verify results, apply fixes when needed, and then re-verify with Playground.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Faster startup and smoother iteration</h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Helper scripts handle startup and shutdown, so an agent doesn’t waste time guessing when WordPress is ready. Using helper scripts reduced the “ready to test” moment from roughly a minute to a few seconds on the author’s machine. The Playground CLI can also log in automatically for easier WP-Admin access during testing.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Install and try it now</h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For those who want to try it in Claude Code, Codex, or another AI agent, installation requires <a href=\"https://nodejs.org/\">Node.js</a> and npm and looks like this:</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-cyan-bluish-gray-color has-dark-strokes-grey-background-color has-text-color has-background has-link-color wp-elements-2a77bf7f3e8595318d429b5c7a3f6dd5 wp-block-paragraph\"># Run this in a project directory to install the skills for that project <br />npx openskills install WordPress/agent-skills<br /><br /># Make skills available to non-Claude agents<br />npx openskills sync</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">A new repo for WordPress agent skills</h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This release also comes with a new home for this kind of work: <br /><a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/agent-skills\">https://github.com/WordPress/agent-skills</a>. </p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It’s an early step in exploring how AI agents can collaborate with WordPress tooling, and contributions from the community are welcome. Future additions being explored include persistent Playground sites based on the current directory, running commands against an existing Playground instance (including wp-cli), and Blueprint generation.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 30 Jan 2026 17:13:55 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Brett McSherry\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:9;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:41:\"Open Channels FM: Take the Time to Listen\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:33:\"https://openchannels.fm/?p=114583\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:48:\"https://openchannels.fm/take-the-time-to-listen/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:62:\"We are too busy adding to 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Directions\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:33:\"https://openchannels.fm/?p=114775\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:109:\"https://openchannels.fm/inside-woocommerce-competitive-advantages-community-events-and-new-design-directions/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:225:\"In this episode of Do the Woo, guest Beau Lebens and hosts James and Katie chat about key WooCommerce topics, including community concerns, competitive advantages, AI developments, and the future of the WooCommerce ecosystem.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Thu, 29 Jan 2026 11:06:41 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:11;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:83:\"WPTavern: #202 – Charly Leetham on Using WordPress to Enable a Digital Nomad Life\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:48:\"https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=202405\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:97:\"https://wptavern.com/podcast/202-charly-leetham-on-using-wordpress-to-enable-a-digital-nomad-life\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:59965:\"<details>Transcript<div>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:00:19] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Welcome to the Jukebox Podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Jukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, using WordPress to enable a digital nomad life.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice, or by going to wptavern.com/feed/podcast, and you can copy that URL into most podcast players.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m keen to hear from you and hopefully get you or your idea featured on the show. Head to wptavern.com/contact/jukebox, and use the form there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So on the podcast today we have Charly Leetham. Charly&#8217;s journey with technology spans over four decades, from tinkering with amateur radio as a teenager in Australia, to working in electronic engineering and eventually building a career in WordPress and small business tech support. With a background in field service, sales, and running retail businesses, Charly pivoted to helping people with their websites and tech needs right around the time WordPress was in its infancy. Today, nearly 20 years later, she&#8217;s still involved in the WordPress ecosystem, providing troubleshooting, support, and plain English tech translations for business owners who need their digital lives demystified.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But in this episode, we are focusing less on her technical skills and more on her unique lifestyle. Charly is a true digital nomad. Someone who&#8217;s not bound to a fixed address, but instead lives and works from a camper van fitted with a Starlink system traveling and working all over Australia.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We talk about what it was like to embrace remote working long before it was commonplace, and how she built a business that supports complete flexibility. We explore both the upsides of the digital nomad life, the freedom to travel, spend quality time with family, and work from beautiful locations, as well as the trade-offs such as limited space, and having to ruthlessly prioritize her longings.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Charlie discusses the essential tech setup that empowers her nomadism. From laptops and microphones to how Starlink satellite internet lets her work reliably from almost anywhere, even in places with little or no mobile signal.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">There&#8217;s practical advice on working with clients, so support can happen on her schedule, and reflections on building a business that matches her values, even if it sometimes means saying goodbye to clients who aren&#8217;t the right fit.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you&#8217;ve ever imagined trading your desk for the open road, or wondered what&#8217;s technologically, and personally possible, as a remote WordPress worker this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you&#8217;re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to wptavern.com/podcast, where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And so without further delay, I bring you Charly Leetham.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I am joined on the podcast by Charly Leetham. Hello Charly.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:03:29] <strong>Charly Leetham:</strong> Hi Nathan. It&#8217;s really good to be here, and we are literally on other side of the world from each other.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:03:35] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> We could probably not be further apart. You are in Australia, and we&#8217;ve never met. We spent probably the last 20 minutes or so having a good old natter. It&#8217;s been really interesting. And actually, the way that this podcast was going to go, I think has been upended by the conversation that we just had. Because you talked to me about your digital nomadism, I&#8217;m going to say, and I want to lean into that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But before we get into all of that story about how you&#8217;ve ended up working remotely and things, do you just want to give us a little bit of background about how you&#8217;ve come to work, be on a WordPress podcast? What&#8217;s your background with tech, your life in general? Whatever you wish.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:04:09] <strong>Charly Leetham:</strong> Okay, well, look, I&#8217;ll try and keep it short. There is like 40 years to sort of condense into three or four minutes here.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Look, I have always been interested in tech from a very, very, very young age. My dad kind of encouraged me, if I was showed interest in anything, he&#8217;d say, well, go and find out about and let&#8217;s do this and let&#8217;s do that. The age of 13, I had my amateur radio license. By the time I was 16, I&#8217;d just left year 10, grade 10, and I went and did an associate diploma, electronic engineering. I worked full-time as a junior laboratory technician in an electronics lab at the Australian University while I was doing that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And from there I went to be a field service tech with a private company. I&#8217;ve done field service, I&#8217;ve done pre-sales, I&#8217;ve done sales, I&#8217;ve done contract management. I&#8217;ve done customer service management. Done bid management.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And then I had a need after I decided, I was really, really sick and tired of doing all of this, so I went and bought myself a business with a franchise. We ran retail businesses for four years. They failed spectacularly. And I had a need that I had to actually get some money through the door so that I could feed the kids, pay the bills, eventually feed myself, and the husband is part of it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So this was born. And this was, people need help with their technology. People need help with their websites, people need help with their emails, people need help with all of this. And at that point in time, that was 2007 and WordPress was just in its infancy. I think it was, maybe three or four generations in at that point, but it was still in its infancy. And I learned, WordPress from that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Someone said, I&#8217;ve got a WordPress website, it&#8217;s not working. Can you look at it? Sure. I can look at it. I know C++, I know Pascal, I know Basic. Oh, this is PHP. What&#8217;s that? I learned PHP, I learned themes, I learned plugins, I learned how to troubleshoot things. And here we are nearly 20 years later, doing the thing that I love the most.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:06:16] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> There&#8217;s a lot in there, Charly. Genuinely, there is a lot in there. But what I&#8217;ve taken from that is that you have always been a bit of a tinkerer. You&#8217;ve always been somebody that&#8217;s fascinated by the technology side of things. Not just the software, but also, you know, the engineering side of things. And so, gosh, what a history you&#8217;ve got.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We&#8217;ll get onto all the WordPress stuff a little bit later. Obviously that&#8217;s a big part of why you&#8217;re on this particular podcast because we are a WordPress focussed podcast. But it was the conversation that we had about half an hour ago that captured my attention and is just going to divert us for a little while.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And that is, you got on the call, we started talking about where we are in the world and the fact that you are over there and I&#8217;m over here, and isn&#8217;t it amazing that we can talk to each other? And the fact that this technology is here and, you know, when we were both children, this was the realm of science fiction. Being able to speak to somebody on the other side of the planet without prearranging it, and organising it with a telephone network and a great expense and all that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And then we started talking about literally where you are. And I was kind of curious about your location. It turns out you are a digital nomad. Now, for those people tuning in who don&#8217;t know what this is, a digital nomad, I guess is somebody who is not bound to a specific location. I live in the UK. I have a house and a mortgage and all those kind of things. So I&#8217;ve kind of saddled myself to that, and I&#8217;ve got this definite spot in the world where I call home. You&#8217;ve decided to kind of get rid of all of that. And so just tell us about your life and what it is that you do, and how you move around and how you empower that with technology, and what technology you use to make that even possible.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:07:53] <strong>Charly Leetham:</strong> Okay. Let&#8217;s start by telling you a story. When my kids were all, all my kids are now in their early thirties, late twenties, so they&#8217;re adults. They&#8217;re gone, they&#8217;re out doing their own thing. But when my kids were born in the mid nineties, I wanted nothing more than to be able to stay home with them. But because of my experience, because of what I was doing, I was the breadwinner. I was the one that had the money coming in, so I had to go back to work. Went back to it when my kids were really young.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And as much as I loved my job and I loved what I was doing, I really hated not being able to be with him. And what I wanted to do was what I&#8217;m doing now, then. The ability to help people with their tech. The technology didn&#8217;t exist. We couldn&#8217;t remote into computers, we couldn&#8217;t do video conferencing. We couldn&#8217;t even do audio calls like phone networks for what we had. So if you just think about, you know, a young 20-year-old woman with two kids, working in IT, wanting to do this.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Now we come forward nearly 20 years, or nearly 30 years because my kids are 30. I can do exactly what I wanted to do 30 years ago today. I can sit wherever I am, I can run up my computer, I can get an internet connection, I can talk to you. Someone says to me, my computer&#8217;s not working, or my email&#8217;s not sending, I can&#8217;t do this. I can remote into their computer. I can do a face-to-face call with them. I can remote into their computer. I can give them that support. I don&#8217;t have to be on site to do that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That is what a digital nomad is. That&#8217;s what me as a digital nomad does. I provide tech support to people wherever I am, literally in the world. I said to you, I traveled in the US for a couple of years. Well, I got stuck in the US for a couple of years. And I didn&#8217;t work over there. I want to be really, really clear because you&#8217;re allowed to work in the US when you&#8217;re over there on a visitor visa. But I was helping people. People would say to me, my computer&#8217;s broken, well, let me remote in. I&#8217;ll have a look. Let me go and do this, I&#8217;ll help you. My dad would ring me from Australia and say, my email&#8217;s broken. What can I do? I&#8217;d fix it for him.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So that&#8217;s what I do. So how does that work for me today? There is a housing crisis. That&#8217;s the first thing that we really need to recognise is there is a housing crisis. Finding a house is really, really difficult. Finding a house that is affordable is even more difficult. Rather than stressing on the fact that I can&#8217;t find a house, or I can&#8217;t afford the rent for a house, or I don&#8217;t want to have that stress of having a rent for a house. I fitted out a vehicle, I got a Starlink system. My brother fitted the vehicle out for me. My son, who is the electrician, put the electrical into it. And I literally live on the road. I go from place to place. I find somewhere I can hook into power for a couple of days. I throw my Starlink out the site, and I work. I support people.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You could talk to me tomorrow, well, not tomorrow. Talk to me in a month, and I&#8217;m going to be in far North Queensland. A month from today, I will be in far North Queensland doing things up in far North Queensland because I&#8217;ve got to be up there for something. That&#8217;s what my life is like.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:10:55] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> If we rewind the clock, I don&#8217;t know, 10 years, did you desire something like that? From what you said, it sounds like you did. You always had some sort of intuition that if the technology allowed, you would wish for something like that. But obviously, kids and bills and all of that kind of got in the way. Has this been something which, if you sort of look back on your life, you think instinctively this was something that you wished to do?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:11:17] <strong>Charly Leetham:</strong> Not on the road. Not mobile like I am. Being able to do it from home, being able to be a work from home mum, absolutely. Being on the road and moving around, no, not even my wildest dreams would I have even imagined it. I didn&#8217;t even know that was available to us. I had no idea.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Look, I&#8217;ve met people, just to sort of segue very quickly. I have met people while I&#8217;m doing this, and they are young families. They are mum and dad and the kids, and they&#8217;re living on the road. They&#8217;ve got homeschooling curriculums for the kids. The kids do all their schooling. They get all these extra education of the places they&#8217;re in, all the things that they&#8217;re doing. Mum and dad will arrange to take the kids out on a bushwalk, and go and see a place that very few people in Australia will ever get to see. And these kids are living this life. I didn&#8217;t know that was available. If I had known that was available, I might have done that with my kids.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:12:08] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I think one of the curious things is that, if you are working in the tech space, and obviously we&#8217;ll talk more about WordPress in a moment, there is a significant chance that this is available to you. I mean obviously you may have a job which is office bound. We understand that that means that you&#8217;ve got to show up to the office and what have you. But I&#8217;m imagining that there&#8217;s quite a few people listening to this podcast who, if they were to really examine it, these possibilities are open to them.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But it may not be something that they, A, wish to do, or B, they&#8217;ve not really thought about it too much. You know, they&#8217;ve decided that, okay, life is fine, I like my local environment or what have you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">What are like the key benefits, if you know what I mean? If you were to advertise this lifestyle to our audience, so we&#8217;ll do this in two parts. Let&#8217;s do the benefits first and then we&#8217;ll do the drawbacks later. What are the key things which you look at in your life at the moment and think, I&#8217;m so grateful for that? What are they?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:12:57] <strong>Charly Leetham:</strong> Freedom. Absolutely the freedom. I mean, we&#8217;re going to talk about drawbacks in a minute, so that&#8217;s going to get balanced out. But it is the freedom. It&#8217;s the ability to say, it&#8217;s getting cold in the south of Australia, remembering we&#8217;re in the southern hemisphere. So, I actually have to say that because people like, it&#8217;s hot in the south. No, it&#8217;s cold in the south. So as the winter months come and it gets colder, we migrate north. So I can literally say, no, it&#8217;s too cold here, I&#8217;m going to go north. Going to go to Queensland and spend winter in Queensland. It still gets cold, but not as cold as it does in the south. So you&#8217;ve got that ability.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I guess one of the biggest benefits is my dad is, he&#8217;s in his late seventies and I get to travel with dad. Dad&#8217;s traveled for many, many years and he still is. But I get to travel with dad. I get to spend these years with my dad. There&#8217;s not many people that can say they get to spend this sort of time, and this quality time, with their parents at this stage of life, because life gets in our way. But we make it work.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We will, once a week, arrange to go and do something. He&#8217;ll come and knock on the door and say, you are working too hard. I&#8217;m like, I&#8217;m working, go away, leave me alone. But then it&#8217;ll be, okay, yes, you&#8217;re right. I&#8217;m working too hard, so why don&#8217;t I take this morning off and we go and visit this place where we are staying. Go and find a touristy place or a bush walk to do, or go for a swim in the sea, or go and do something together so I can spend time with my dad. If the family needs me to be somewhere, I can be there, generally.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I also just to sort of pad this out a little, I also house sit while I&#8217;m doing it. So sometimes I&#8217;ll get to a place, someone will be advertising, we need a house sitter. We need someone to come and live in the house, or live at the house, for a couple of weeks while we&#8217;re away. So I&#8217;ll go and house sit for them, and I get another experience in all of that. So that&#8217;s the benefits. It&#8217;s just that flexibility. I would be doing exactly what I&#8217;m doing, but I would be stuck in a house. I&#8217;d be stuck in a room, in a house, grinding. I can grind and be in some of the most beautiful places in the country.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:15:02] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Do you know, it&#8217;s so curious because I&#8217;m imagining there&#8217;s a proportion of the people listening to this who are just so in awe of that description. You know, oh gosh, you can really spend the time in the locations that you wish. I&#8217;m imagining there&#8217;ll also be other people who think, no, that&#8217;s not what I want at all. But I&#8217;ve got to say, I&#8217;m really drawn to what you&#8217;re saying. The idea of being able to go and, I don&#8217;t know, work with a spectacular view. Or work in a particular city for a period of time, and then go somewhere slightly more rural. In other words, it&#8217;s not the same view that you get every day when you wake up. There&#8217;s that variety in life which, certainly for me, there&#8217;s a lot of appeal there. Okay, let&#8217;s do the drawbacks. What are the downsides?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:15:44] <strong>Charly Leetham:</strong> The downsize is I live in a car. Literally, I live in a little camper van. My workspace is probably, because I fitted out a little commercial vehicle, a little commercial van as my van and as, you know, as my income improves, my savings improve, I will probably upgrade it. But my workspace is probably a metre by a metre. It&#8217;s not very big. And when I finish up for the day, I&#8217;ve got to pack everything up so I&#8217;ve got room for relaxation. I can&#8217;t sort of just walk out of a room, shut the door and say, well, that&#8217;s work done.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Now, work&#8217;s done for me, I&#8217;ve got to pack everything up, I&#8217;ve got to put everything away. You are living on the road, so you don&#8217;t have all of your stuff. And I&#8217;m going to put stuff in double quotes, they&#8217;re in inverted commas. You learn very quickly what is important to you, and what is necessary, and you have what is necessary. And then you have a few of those things that you go, these are really important to me and I&#8217;m not going to give them up.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So it is not like you can say, oh, I&#8217;ve got that plate that is really good for this entertaining thing, and go to a cupboard and pull that plate out that you use maybe once a year. No, you don&#8217;t have that. You&#8217;ve got the plates that you use every day.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:16:50] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah. The plates.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:16:52] <strong>Charly Leetham:</strong> Yeah, well, I travel on my own. I could literally live with one plate, one cup, one bowl, knife and fork. You are trading off that flexibility of having a house where you can have things stored, and all of storage space. You really have to think about what it is you want. I have a rule. I literally have a rule and I think everyone should live with this rule anyway. I have to have needed it four times before I go and buy it. If I haven&#8217;t needed it four times, then I&#8217;m not going to buy it. If I look at something, I go, oh, that&#8217;d be really cool and it&#8217;d be really convenient. Then I go, but would I use it? Have I needed it four times? Have I needed the functionality that gives me four times? No, don&#8217;t buy it. Because where the hell am I going to put it?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:17:37] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, and I guess whatever you&#8217;re buying, you have to buy the tiny version of it as well. You can&#8217;t get the sort of jumbo version of whatever it is.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:17:44] <strong>Charly Leetham:</strong> There&#8217;s your other trade off is you can&#8217;t buy food in bulk. Like, I used to go and buy several cans of food and put them in the cupboard. Whether I used them or not immediately, there would be several cans of the same thing in the cupboard just in case I needed it. And if it was sort of, oh, I&#8217;m down to the last can, I&#8217;ll go and buy a few more. Well, now I&#8217;m down to buying two or three cans at a time. And once I&#8217;ve run those out, I&#8217;ve got to go and find the nearest shop and go and buy another one just to sort of keep it topped up.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You&#8217;re not buying in bulk, you&#8217;re not buying your meat, you&#8217;re not buying your fruit veg in bulk. Does that matter? No, because when you get to certain places, you normally find the local providers, you normally find the local fruit seller or the local fruit and veg shop, and go and buy there. You go and support the local community, and you pick up a few things there and, yep, that&#8217;s what you&#8217;re going to use. That&#8217;s what we do.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:18:31] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Just to interrupt there, Charly, do you try to spend a significant portion of time in a particular place so that rather than just sort of driving through it, I guess, and spending a couple of days here and a couple of days there, do you spend significant amounts of time there, and therefore begin to have some feeling of what that community is like?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I guess the underpinnings of that question really is, how do you get that sort of human interaction that so many people think is important? Because clearly you are meeting fresh people every day, and you probably don&#8217;t get the chance to form those roots and what have you. So there&#8217;s a lot there. But do you know what I mean? Do you try to sort of spend a bit of time so that you gather some of those human connections along the way?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:19:12] <strong>Charly Leetham:</strong> Okay, so there&#8217;s a couple of things there that you&#8217;ve touched on. On my way to a location, I may only spend a day in a location, as I&#8217;m heading to a final destination or the next stop along the way. When I get to that next stop along the way, I do try to spend a bit of time, because I like to put my roots down. I like to be able to just settle on in, be able to work for really long periods and not have to worry about, oh, I&#8217;ve got to pack everything up and be on the road again. I&#8217;ve worked for three days, now I&#8217;ve got to spend the next two or three hours packing everything up so I can get on the road and drive for another couple of hours. Yes, I know English people are going to say, couple of hours driving, you&#8217;d be across the country.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We&#8217;d spend a couple of hours driving and then you get to the other end and you&#8217;ve got to set it up. So you&#8217;re losing a day when you&#8217;re doing that. So my preference is when I get to where I want to be, getting my feet down and staying there for a couple of weeks if I can. And then from there, I use that as a base of, okay, what is within a hundred kilometers that I can go and visit, and do the site seeing, and do the local colour, and make that a hub for my activities.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You then asked about human interaction and honestly, I think I&#8217;m a little different to people. I don&#8217;t need it as much as others. I am really, really quite happy to just be in my sphere. I&#8217;ve got my online connections. If I need to speak to someone, I&#8217;ve normally got someone on the other, on Discord, or one of the chat programs that I can chat to. And then if I feel like I&#8217;m getting to that stir crazy point, you go to the local pub or you go to the local cafe and you sort of sit around and you have a chat to the locals.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That fills that need for me. I&#8217;m not a person who is, it sounds terrible, I&#8217;m actually really good in a public environment, but it drains me. So I really, once that&#8217;s done, I&#8217;m done for a couple of days and I can just go sit in nature and not worry about it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:20:58] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, I think everybody can totally see that. There&#8217;s just so many different personality types, isn&#8217;t there? I can identify exactly with what you&#8217;re saying. I can go for extended periods of time, and not really require that human interaction. And then occasionally I sort of crave it, and so I satisfy it and go and meet people and hang out with all sorts of different people.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And so I guess really that is the piece that you would need to examine in your own life. Because if you were going to go nomadic, for want of a better word, you&#8217;ve got to really understand that bit. What is your need? On what level do you need to be with other people and interact with other people? Because that&#8217;s really the fulcrum around what makes this whole thing possible.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Speaking of what makes the whole thing possible, I&#8217;m interested to delve into the tech a little bit. Because you mentioned this sort of one metre square, and the fact that you&#8217;ve got to pack things away and what have you. I&#8217;m curious as to what technology do you have which enables this? Ignoring the vehicle and all that, I&#8217;m just trying to imagine what you might put in your shopping cart. If you were telling somebody this digital nomad life was available, what would be the requirements to make that happen?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:22:01] <strong>Charly Leetham:</strong> So I&#8217;m doing this with my laptop computer. Now, I buy as top of the range as I can when I buy, and it lasts me for years. So I&#8217;ve got, I don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;re familiar with them, I have an MSI gaming computer, because it&#8217;s got the extra fans in it. So it really, really works well when you&#8217;re doing a lot of processor intensive stuff. So it&#8217;s not just for gaming, because I do a bit of graphic design and I do a bit of this and I do a bit of that. So the extra fans make the world a difference.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So I&#8217;ve got an MSI gaming computer, or an MSI computer. I have an external microphone. I&#8217;ve actually just recently bought an external webcam. I was using the webcam on the computer. It was perfectly fine. I&#8217;ve changed my setup to where I now have an external monitor mounted on the wall in my van. So when I settle in, I pull my 21 inch monitor out and I plug my computer into it and I&#8217;ve got this beautiful big monitor. I&#8217;ve got my external keyboard, and I&#8217;ve got my mouse.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:22:56] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay. I mean it&#8217;s the bare essentials, isn&#8217;t it? I think we can all understand that. And then I think you mentioned the internet connectivity bit, which I suppose is also a crucial part of the tech. Because where I am, it&#8217;s a landline. I obviously have, you know, I&#8217;ve got a mobile phone, so there&#8217;s the cell signal, which will allow me to roam within Europe and North America and what have you, but there&#8217;s all the cost and everything associated with that. Where you go, I think it&#8217;s fair to say that you would quickly lose all manner of possibilities because the reception in Australia, you said is not that great in terms of the internet. So how do you overcome that? I think you said Starlink.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:23:30] <strong>Charly Leetham:</strong> Yes, Starlink. I kind of looked into it for a very long time. I was relying on our mobile data and using my phone as a hot link. But in Australia, I was joking with you about it when we started this call, I&#8217;m on the NBN here. And if anyone knows anything about the NBN, you&#8217;ll know that most Australians hate the NBN. It&#8217;s terrible. If it works, you&#8217;ve got to consider yourself lucky.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It&#8217;s great if you are in a capital city, but you go a hundred kilometers, and I&#8217;m being a little flippant when I say that, but I&#8217;m not too far wrong. Go a hundred kilometers away from a regional center and you&#8217;ve got nothing. There&#8217;s no radio signal. By radio signal, I mean mobile signal. You can&#8217;t make phone calls. You&#8217;ve got that little, there is no signal icon on your phone. You can&#8217;t actually get a connection. I say a hundred kilometers, maybe it&#8217;s 200, maybe it&#8217;s 250, but that&#8217;s not a very long way in Australia. It really isn&#8217;t.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So I bought Starlink. I spoke to someone who was traveling along the way. And I actually want to come back to just the nomadic lifestyle when we&#8217;re done here, Nathan. And I met someone while they were traveling. They said, oh, Starlink, it&#8217;s wonderful. And it was still relatively new at the time. I&#8217;m like, oh, really? Are you sure? And he explained it to me like, oh. So when I got the car, I went and bought myself the Starlink and it&#8217;s fantastic.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Oh my goodness, it&#8217;s so good. You&#8217;ve got to have power because the routers take power. You can just get, you know, one of the, I don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;ve got them there, the power stations, the USB power station that you charge up and you can run all your devices off it for a couple of hours. You could do that. I&#8217;ve seen people run them off of just car batteries with the clamps on the battery terminals. I&#8217;m an Australian, this is pretty normal.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So you&#8217;ve got to have the power for the router, to run the router. That then powers the dish and you&#8217;ve basically got, in inverted commas, uninterruptable internet for as long as your power lasts. For as long as you&#8217;ve got power, you&#8217;ve got uninterruptable internet. I have found where I&#8217;ve been, I house sat for my sister-in-law during winter, and her internet was terrible. So I went and got my Starlink out and threw it up and connected to it, and I had better internet. The connection speed on the internet on the Starlink versus her landline connection was like 10 times. I had 10 times better internet connection using Starlink than I did on a landline.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:25:50] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> With the Starlink technology, do you have to, so I really am ignorant of this. I mean I know it&#8217;s to do with satellites, and I know that you can have it bolted onto the side of your house, I guess if you live in a rural area where there is no regular landline. But yours is this sort of peripatetic, mobile version of that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Firstly, do you have to point it at a particular part of the sky? Do you have to spend time lining it up or do you just have to, just plonk it in daylight? So you know, outside basically? And is it bulky, or is it the kind of stuff that you could throw in a backpack if you were nomadic in that sense? You know, you didn&#8217;t have wheels, you didn&#8217;t have a vehicle, you were just sort of backpacking around. So two things. Where do you have to point it and is it big?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:26:27] <strong>Charly Leetham:</strong> Okay. You asked some really great questions. I&#8217;m just going to say they are really, really inspired questions. The first thing I want to say is that the stuff that you see bolted onto the side of a house is typically the stuff that we would use when we&#8217;re out mobile. It&#8217;s the same hardware. They&#8217;ve just got mounting technology, or mounting systems, that will allow you to mount it to the house.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Quick story before I answer the second question about how big is it and all the rest of it. I had a version 2 Starlink, which, it would now be five or six years old, and it&#8217;s got a pole and it&#8217;s got the dish on it. And the dish is, I say dish, it&#8217;s a rectangular panel and you&#8217;ve got put it on a base so that it&#8217;s stable. That&#8217;s heavier than the version three. I had that last week, the week before I had a problem with it and I was a bit concerned. So I contacted Starlink and I said, listen, it&#8217;s doing this, here&#8217;s all my, being a tech I had all the diagnostics and stuff I&#8217;d done and I laid it all out and I said, and I just really want to say that I&#8217;m a little concerned. Because I&#8217;m traveling and I&#8217;m often outside of mobile range, I don&#8217;t want to get outside of mobile range, put my Starlink on and have it fail. I&#8217;m concerned that I&#8217;ve got an intermittent fault that is going to be a problem.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And they said, no worries, we&#8217;ll send you a version 3, no charge. Because I&#8217;ve been with Starlink now, probably two, two and a half, no, two years now. And they just sent me the new hardware. So I&#8217;ve just upgraded to the version 3. So I can actually talk about both. So the version two is a little bigger. You&#8217;re probably talking, I&#8217;m just holding my hands up. It&#8217;s probably about 40 centimeters wide and 70 centimeters tall, the panel. It&#8217;s only 10 mil, five centimeters deep, I guess.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:28:06] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It&#8217;s like the sort of size of a modestly big laptop screen. Something along those lines.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:28:13] <strong>Charly Leetham:</strong> Actually, it would be about the same size as my, I&#8217;m just looking at, it would be a little larger than my computer here. And I&#8217;ve got a 21, is this the 15? No, this is a 17 inch. This is a 17 inch monitor. So I&#8217;ve got a 17 inch laptop.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:28:24] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, so we&#8217;re in the order of, got my hands out and I&#8217;m imagining how big that is. It certainly answers my backpacking question anyway.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:28:32] <strong>Charly Leetham:</strong> Well, let me answer that question for you in a different way. There is now actually what they call a Starlink Mini, which is designed for backpacks. It&#8217;s designed to fit inside a backpack. It&#8217;s got a portable power supply so that you can go hiking, you can go backpacking and take your Starlink with you. I don&#8217;t know a lot about it. I do know that the plan that you put it on is a little different to what you would put our plans on, the plans you would use for ours, because it&#8217;s designed for you to be really, really mobile, not just mobile like we are. And it&#8217;s really light. It&#8217;s designed for a backpack.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So that answers that question as well as like, you&#8217;ve got the technology. The version 3, and I wanted you to say this, the version 3 would probably be half as light as the version 2. So it&#8217;s much lighter. And one of the things that I really liked about the way this all works is that they&#8217;ve got ground mounts, right? So you just put them down on the ground, which is going to answer your next question. Do you need to position it? No. You just put it out. You&#8217;ve got to make sure it&#8217;s got a clear view of the sky. You&#8217;ve got to make sure that there&#8217;s no real obstructions, and that means no trees, no buildings. So nothing that&#8217;s going to sort of overshadow it as the satellites go over. And it will find the satellites for you. You don&#8217;t have to do anything. You just hit the button and it just works.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:29:45] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Miraculous really when you think about it. I mean, actually think about it. You&#8217;ve got this box that you just plonk out under the stars somewhere, and a bunch of, I mean, I&#8217;m just actually thinking about what I&#8217;m about to say, and it is ridiculous. There&#8217;s a bunch of satellites, so they had to go into space, moving around the planet. And they connect to the little box somehow send TCP IP packets all over the place, literally off the planet, which then get bounced down somewhere and, you know, end up in this case talking to me. Insane that any of that works.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:30:19] <strong>Charly Leetham:</strong> So let me just add to that, at faster speeds than your standard internet will give you in Australia. I don&#8217;t know what it&#8217;s like in the US, I don&#8217;t know what it&#8217;s like in Britain, the UK, but it&#8217;s faster and more stable speeds than you get in Australia in general.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:30:36] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, I actually, so it&#8217;s probably about six months ago I looked at Starlink. I&#8217;ve never seriously looked at it. I&#8217;m always just curious about it so I&#8217;ve ended up on the Starlink website. In terms of the speeds that you can get, they&#8217;re not comparable to what you can get through a landline. You can get significantly faster. But they are still impressive. And there&#8217;s nothing that day-to-day use wouldn&#8217;t be afforded by a Starlink package. I mean, maybe if you were sort of streaming 4K video left, right and center, maybe it would struggle in that scenario. But for any normal, and I&#8217;m doing air quotes, any normal use of the internet, more than enough. Absolutely incredible.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Okay, so all of that stuff, absolutely amazing. I&#8217;m so impressed with everything that you&#8217;ve just said. It really, it speaks to me. I think there&#8217;s an awful lot in your life that I think, oh gosh, wish I was Charly. But I&#8217;m kind of curious then as to the kind of work that you do actually do, because you painted this picture of all these infinite possibilities and what have you. And now I&#8217;m turning the attention really to what is it that you do do? What are the kind of things that you&#8217;ve been able to create in your life in this nomadic way? What kind of work are you able to pull off?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:31:43] <strong>Charly Leetham:</strong> So what I do, what my business is, is I help businesses manage their tech. I like to sit between a business and they&#8217;re tech. Some people might call me their CTO, some people might just call me their technical team. I try to translate tech into plain English for business owners so that it takes all of that stress out of it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When your business owner says, I need an email address, or I need a new email account, or whatever it is, and they&#8217;re talking to a provider, and the provider&#8217;s giving them all of the marketing guff, and all of the sales thing, and then it&#8217;s not working. So then they&#8217;re speaking to the technical people and the technical people are talking their jargon to them. It&#8217;s overwhelming for them, and they&#8217;re not spending time running their businesses when they&#8217;re dealing with that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">They need someone who can sit between them and that morass, if you like, and then say, okay, what is it you want? Oh, right, cool. Let me go and talk to people. Let me get you some answers and I&#8217;ll come back to you. So I often say, I don&#8217;t walk into a business and say, the answer is this, now what was the question? Which is what a lot of product salespeople would do. And I don&#8217;t want to, I&#8217;m not trying to bag salespeople here, because they&#8217;re needed. But I don&#8217;t go in and say, the answer is this, now what was the question? I go in and I say, okay, what is it you&#8217;re trying to do?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I don&#8217;t want to know about the technology you want to use. I want to know about what your business application is. I want to know, what is your input and what is your output? What are you trying to do here? Cool. Now, what systems do you already have? Let me go and investigate those systems. Let me see what they can do for you. Let me see if we can make those systems work to do what you want them to do. They can&#8217;t do it, okay, let me go and find some technology that we can plug in and we&#8217;ll work with what you&#8217;ve got.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The big thing I find with a lot of small businesses is, two things. They get caught with the bright shiny object syndrome. Oh, this new technology&#8217;s coming out. It&#8217;s going to make my business run well, it&#8217;s going to make me money. Technology never makes you money, by the way. Technology only ever helps you make money if you use it right. So they get caught with the bright shiny object syndrome. Or they get caught with the sales person said it would work. I didn&#8217;t understand what it did, and I bought this system and now it doesn&#8217;t interact with the rest of my systems and I&#8217;ve now got to put all these other processes and all these other things in places to make it work.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That&#8217;s kind of where I sit. But I&#8217;m a tech as well, so I can make it work, I can troubleshoot it. I build websites, which is how I got into WordPress. I build websites. I fix websites. Like I actually also troubleshoot plugins. You know when we upgrade something or something&#8217;s not working and you&#8217;re getting all the error message? I&#8217;ll go and actually troubleshoot a plugin and say, oh, that plugin&#8217;s doing this. Can I fix it? No. Okay, I&#8217;ll send a support response off to the plugin provider and say, here&#8217;s all the logs, here&#8217;s what I&#8217;ve done, here&#8217;s what I&#8217;ve found. Can you get this fixed up for me? Or can you get it fixed up for us? Or, I&#8217;m really stuck because I&#8217;m getting to this point and it&#8217;s just not working and I don&#8217;t know where it&#8217;s going wrong, but I&#8217;m pretty certain it&#8217;s between here and here.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The other thing I do in all of that is, when you get the two suppliers going, it&#8217;s them with the fingers going both ways. I tend to be the one that sits between it and mediates to try and get that sorted out. So that&#8217;s what I do, and I do that all remotely.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:34:54] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I&#8217;ve totally understood all of that. You know, you&#8217;ve got this, you&#8217;re sort of sitting in between, and being that kind of agent that helps people with the tech because they&#8217;re busy and they&#8217;re doing all the things and they haven&#8217;t got the time to gain that expertise in all of that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So the follow up question, I guess from that, and it&#8217;s kind of leaning into your nomadic thing a little bit as well, is I guess that kind of work, the kind of work that you&#8217;ve got for yourself there, you can do it because, and I&#8217;m going to say this like it&#8217;s true and then you can correct me if I&#8217;m false, because you can do that when you have time available.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And what I mean by that is, it&#8217;s not like if you were working in an office and you need to be there from nine o&#8217;clock in the morning until five o&#8217;clock at night, because the telephone lines open up and you&#8217;ve got to field all this support. I&#8217;m guessing you&#8217;ve built a business where the channels of communication are a little bit more async than that. I don&#8217;t know, like an email exchange, or Discord, or Slack or whatever it may be. In other words, you can be in the car driving at 7:30 in the morning or 5:30 in the afternoon, or 3 or whatever it may be, because you are not needed at that exact moment by, I&#8217;m going to say your employer, but in this case, your clients. It&#8217;s more async than that. So I&#8217;ve said that like it&#8217;s true. Is that true?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:36:07] <strong>Charly Leetham:</strong> It is true for me. You are entirely correct. I&#8217;m sort of laughing because you&#8217;re like, oh, you can be driving in the car. The amount of times where I&#8217;ve been traveling with dad and my phone&#8217;s buzzed at me and I&#8217;ve gone, oh. And he goes, okay, hang on, I&#8217;ll pull over. Because we&#8217;ve got radio signal, we&#8217;ve got mobile signal. And he pulls over and I&#8217;ll fix the problem. Like, it might be a five minute fix and I will actually fix the problem then and we&#8217;ll keep moving. I&#8217;m sitting having a cup of coffee somewhere and one of my clients messages. And they message. I rarely spend time on the phone, or on video conferences with them. They know that the best way to get me is to book a time. I&#8217;ve trained my clients.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:36:44] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> That&#8217;s fascinating. So to you, that piece of the jigsaw puzzle is entirely obvious. And so it kind of just gets glossed over in your head. But you have created a business where that bit is the kind of foundational piece. If you had clients that wanted you on call 24/7, that really wouldn&#8217;t work because you&#8217;ve carved out a life for yourself where you don&#8217;t want to be on call 24/7. You want be able to do what you want to do when you want to do it, with the understanding that the clients are important, but the async nature of it is, they&#8217;ll message you. As soon as you can get to it, you&#8217;ll get to it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And I&#8217;m guessing that when you onboard these clients, there&#8217;s that whole education piece. This is what I do, this is the way we respond to support. You&#8217;ll get an answer with, I don&#8217;t know, 12 hours, 24 hours, whatever it may be. And it may be that somebody listening to this podcast is firefighting all the time and they kind of haven&#8217;t figured that piece out. So I think that&#8217;s really interesting that you&#8217;ve got that, but yet it&#8217;s self-evident to you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:37:39] <strong>Charly Leetham:</strong> I think I want to also add to that is that my clients trust me. So there might be point in time where I am always on for that client for a while at least. And when, I&#8217;m always on for them. If they message me, I will, and I do this for all of my clients actually. If they message me and say, hey, this is a problem, and I&#8217;ve got access, I actually have the ability to respond to them. I will normally respond to them and say, I&#8217;m letting you know, I&#8217;ve seen this on the road today, or I&#8217;ve got meetings all day. I&#8217;ve got this, you are in my queue, I&#8217;ll get to you as soon as I can. And they know that actually means not tomorrow, not the next day, not, whenever it is. I really do mean as soon as I get a space available, they&#8217;re going to get my attention. We&#8217;ve built that trust relationship.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:38:26] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I think probably that is another foundational piece of your business. Without that trust, that&#8217;s going to be difficult to onboard clients. Do you tend to gather clients by word of mouth more, or do you have a marketing website where people onboard to you and you have to build that trust up over time? Or is it more a case of your clients recommend your services to other clients who then bring in that trust with them, if you know what I mean?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:38:49] <strong>Charly Leetham:</strong> Mostly column A, little bit of column B and more of column C. So yeah, it&#8217;s a bit of everything. I am actually just starting to ramp up my marketing as I start to get more comfortable with what I&#8217;m doing. And it sounds strange, right? Because I&#8217;ve been doing it for a while, but I&#8217;m starting to get more comfortable.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So now I&#8217;m starting to ramp up my marketing, because I can talk to people about how it works and what it does. And I have very frank conversations. It&#8217;s one of my things is to be, make sure that I am upfront, I am frank, I am honest about what goes on. I don&#8217;t like. I can talk salesy. I prefer not to. I prefer to be plain English and real world with people.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I think the other thing because, if we are talking to your audience, the other thing that I really wanted to highlight there is that I have had clients sack me because they don&#8217;t like the way I work. That&#8217;s not a reflection on me. That&#8217;s not a reflection on the surface I provide. It was a reflection on the relationship that was developed, and that relationship didn&#8217;t work for them. I&#8217;m good with that. I hope I found someone that can actually work with them the way they need them to work.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The other side of that is I have actually suggested to some clients that they would be better off with another provider. And as a service provider, that&#8217;s something that we have to be utterly comfortable with. Being able to say this client is not the client that works for us. We are going to spend too much time, too much energy, too much money supporting them, than we are going to get out of that relationship. It is commercial, and it sounds mercantile, and it sounds cutthroat, and it is. But by doing that, what you&#8217;re also doing is making space for another client to come in that is actually going to fit your ideals better, it&#8217;s going to fit the way you work better. You&#8217;re also allowing that client to find a provider that works better for them.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:40:39] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> This has been such an interesting conversation Charly. This is your life, right? So it&#8217;s just oh, this is the way I wake up and I do these things and what have you. But it&#8217;s in such contrast to my life at the moment, and yet there&#8217;s so many bits of the jigsaw puzzle that you&#8217;ve just described that are really fascinating to me.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I would imagine there&#8217;s going to be quite a lot of people listening to this who have intuitions that, I got into tech and I got into building WordPress websites so that I too could have a little bit more of that freedom. Maybe even going as far as you&#8217;ve done to make it more nomadic. So they own their own vehicle and potter about all over the place. Or they backpack for three months of the year. It&#8217;s just fascinating. And because it&#8217;s your life, it probably doesn&#8217;t seem that extraordinary, but from where I&#8217;m sitting, totally remarkable.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:41:24] <strong>Charly Leetham:</strong> No, it doesn&#8217;t seem like it&#8217;s every day to me. I will say that I think I have a concept of how blessed I am being able to do it. I try not to become so blase about, oh, this is just the way my life is. It&#8217;s yeah, I worked hard to get it to this point. So I&#8217;ve got to accept that I&#8217;ve put in a lot of work to get there, but I&#8217;ve also got to accept that there is a lot of blessings that have come from it. And I thank the Lord every day for the life that I have.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:41:50] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Well Charly, we&#8217;ve reached the 45 minute mark, and although we had a whole range of different things that we could talk about, I hope that you are happy that&#8217;s where we ended up. We talked mostly about digital nomadism. We didn&#8217;t really stray into WordPress too much, but what a fascinating conversation.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Maybe we&#8217;ll have a conversation another day, and lean in heavily to the WordPress side of things, but digital nomadism it was.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Charly, where can people reach you? And I don&#8217;t mean that in a physical sense because obviously we have no idea where you&#8217;re going to be, but if they were to reach out online, or try and find you on a social network, or a website or whatever it may be, where would be some of the places where we could find you?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:42:27] <strong>Charly Leetham:</strong> The best place to find me is on my website. If you go to askcharlyleetham.com, and then at the end of it put /connect-me. So connect to me with the dashes between it, you will get wherever you can find me. All the networks I&#8217;m on. You can book a free 30 minute breakthrough session. And guys, if you just want to come and talk to me about how you can set up your business, or the things that you&#8217;re doing and the things that you need to consider, I&#8217;d happily talk to you for 30 minutes about that. That&#8217;s not a problem at all. And just so you know, I&#8217;m on Facebook, I&#8217;m on X, I&#8217;m on LinkedIn. I&#8217;ve got a YouTube channel.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I do a podcast every other day. I do a podcast, Making Tech Easy for Small Business Owners. It&#8217;s a 10 to 15, or 15 to 20 minute episode about something tech, and tries to try to simplify it out. I do interviews every now and again, much like this that I put up on there. I&#8217;m on Rumble, I&#8217;m on Odyssey.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:43:22] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I will link to all of those different bits and pieces. Anything that we&#8217;ve mentioned just then I will put into the show notes. So if you head to wptavern.com. Search for the episode with Charly in it. And Charly, I should have said at the beginning is not a typical spelling, it&#8217;s c h a r l y. So if you search for that this episode will surface.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So absolutely fascinating, Charly. Thank you so much for chatting to me today and good luck. I hope that you managed to get wherever it is that you are going in the days, weeks, months, and years to come. Thank you so much.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:43:52] <strong>Charly Leetham:</strong> Thank you Nathan. I have had an absolute ball. I&#8217;ve really enjoyed this conversation, and I love talking about the life I&#8217;ve built, so thank you.</p>\n</div></details>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">On the podcast today we have <a href=\"https://askcharlyleetham.com\">Charly Leetham</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Charly’s journey with technology spans over four decades, from tinkering with amateur radio as a teenager in Australia, to working in electronic engineering, and eventually building a career in WordPress and small business tech support. With a background in field service, sales, and running retail businesses, Charly pivoted to helping people with their websites and tech needs right around the time WordPress was in its infancy. Today, nearly 20 years later, she’s still involved in the WordPress ecosystem, providing troubleshooting, support, and plain-English tech translations for business owners who need their digital lives demystified.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But in this episode, we’re focusing less on her technical skills and more on her unique lifestyle. Charly is a true digital nomad, someone who’s not bound to a fixed address, but instead lives and works from a camper van fitted with a Starlink system, traveling, and working, all over Australia.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We talk about what it was like to embrace remote working long before it was commonplace, and how she built a business that supports complete flexibility. We explore both the upsides of the digital nomad life, the freedom to travel, spend quality time with family, and work from beautiful locations, as well as the tradeoffs, such as limited space and having to ruthlessly prioritise her belongings.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Charly discusses the essential tech setup that empowers her nomadism: from laptops and microphones to how Starlink satellite internet lets her work reliably from almost anywhere, even in places with little or no mobile signal. There’s practical advice on working with clients, so support can happen on her schedule, and reflections on building a business that matches her values, even if it sometimes means saying goodbye to clients who aren’t the right fit.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you’ve ever imagined trading your desk for the open road, or wondered what’s technologically and personally possible as a remote WordPress worker, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Useful links</h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://askcharlyleetham.com\">Charly&#8217;s website</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Charly can be found on the following platforms:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://www.facebook.com/AskCharlyLeetham/\">Facebook</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.instagram.com/ask_charly_leetham\">Instagram</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/charlyleetham\">LinkedIn</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://x.com/yourbizmgr\">X</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://starlink.com\">Starlink</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://askcharlyleetham.com/rise-and-shine-your-daily-tech-boost/\">Charly&#8217;s podcast</a></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 28 Jan 2026 15:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Nathan Wrigley\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:12;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:46:\"HeroPress: How Art School Led Me To Web Design\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:56:\"https://heropress.com/?post_type=heropress-essays&p=8325\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:144:\"https://heropress.com/essays/how-art-school-led-me-to-web-design/#utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=how-art-school-led-me-to-web-design\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14108:\"<img alt=\"Pull Quote: The open web is about inclusion, connection, and community.\" class=\"attachment-large size-large wp-post-image\" height=\"512\" src=\"https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/3026/01/012726.webp\" width=\"1024\" /><section class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-group\" style=\"padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-audio\"><audio controls=\"controls\" src=\"https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/3026/01/erapport-heropress.m4a\"></audio><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Here is Emily reading her own story aloud.</figcaption></figure>\n</section>\n\n\n\n\n<p>There are two, possibly conflicting, values inherent to my work and general enjoyment of life &#8211; collaboration and autonomy.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>My background is in fine art. I studied painting in Chicago and New York in the mid-90s. I very much saw the web as another pliant artistic medium to work with, as well as a non-traditional way to show my artwork (since I didn’t have gallery representation). I created fun websites for myself, cropping my photographs for backgrounds and custom buttons, assembling content within tables, interviewing inanimate objects and making animated GIFs. And, yes, I did display an animated hit-counter and a “Built for Netscape Navigator” badge &#8211; if that helps you visualize this cacophony.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Living in capitalism, I was also governed by self-interest. I thought I might apply my creative abilities to the earning of a living wage since being a “professional artist” seemed to involve more social skills and luck than I could depend on.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-checking-out-the-web\">Checking Out The Web</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Aside from one class I took in college that covered HTML5 and Macromedia Director, I mostly taught myself by reading books by <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynda_Weinman\">Lynda Weinman</a> and Peachpit Press and building things. Learning HTML then, and later CSS, was powerful and a much more accessible entry point for a person like me &#8211; not especially technical but able to endure lots of trial and error to figure out how to make things work (eventually).</p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>After graduating, I did not get a job at a prestigious design firm. </p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>I was a terrible designer and I didn’t know how to dress or behave in a corporate environment. I probably still don’t. Instead, I waited tables and made websites for friends and fellow artists. After a few years of this, I started to wonder what I was doing with my life and whether I would ever be an artist myself. I volunteered to work with a small neighborhood arts group. I knew they needed a website, so I made one and later worked with a local web development company to migrate it to their proprietary CMS for our volunteer group. Finding I had an aptitude for coordinating people, creating content, and assembling something from nothing &#8211; being a web designer began to glimmer as a possibility in the back of my mind. I thought about pursuing arts administration but while at a nonprofit bootcamp had the epiphany that I needed to do my own art and not just support other artists. (Aside: This was to become the underlying struggle of my adult life, <a href=\"https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/wip\">#WIP</a>.) </p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-moving-on\">Moving On</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Back to waiting tables, I built a few more sites for friends who had started their own businesses. These early sites were all made with HTML, CSS, and a sprinkle of JavaScript. After a few projects, I began to realize that if I had to be the master of all content, I would quickly max out my capacity to take on new work. This was around 2010. I had recently met another web designer who lived near me in Chicago &#8211; <a href=\"https://heropress.com/essays/doing-what-i-want/\">Becky Davis</a>. Becky also ran the Chicago WordPress MeetUp and, through her, I started my journey into WordPress theme development. I purchased “<a href=\"https://digwp.com/\">Digging into WordPress</a>,” the non-official WordPress manual created by <a href=\"https://chriscoyier.net/\">Chris Coyier</a> and <a href=\"https://wpfounders.com/wordpress-plugin/jeff-starr-perishable-press/\">Jeff Starr</a>. What could go wrong?</p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>Learning a new technology came with its own challenges.</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p> I landed my first non-friend client, hosted them on GoDaddy, and was almost immediately felled by some nefarious exploit. So, I figured out how to resuscitate a hacked site, I learned from bitter experience that I must always (always) have a backup, and I experimented with various commercial themes as I tried to figure out how to build a child theme in this new frontier of PHP code. It’s not as perilous for newbies now; hosts understand how to manage WordPress better and there is a ton of excellent documentation on how to do things (necessary for developing for the complexity and popularity of WordPress today).</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-getting-a-real-job\">Getting A &#8220;Real&#8221; Job</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>I worked on my own, slowly building up a business that supported me, but I felt that I was hitting a capacity ceiling again. This time, PHP programming was the biggest challenge. In 2015, I decided I was going to get a “real” job. My hope was that within a company, I would work directly with “real” programmers and develop my skills. I put “real” in quote marks because &#8211; people are just people, with flaws and failures like anyone else. Being a freelancer isn’t a “not real” job. There’s just pros and cons to each situation. </p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>Also, even real programmers don’t understand semantic HTML or CSS.</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>The only designer on a very small team with remote developers, I was still working with clients and building websites with little direction. My work hadn’t really changed; I just had more pressure and no capacity to choose what projects I wanted to work on. I listened to lots of podcasts during this time &#8211; mainly <a href=\"https://bigwebshow.fireside.fm/\">Jeffrey Zeldman’s <em>The Big Web Show</em></a>, <a href=\"https://thewebahead.net/\">Jen Simmons&#8217; <em>The Web Ahead</em></a>, <a href=\"https://userdefenders.com/\">Jason Ogle’s <em>User Defenders</em></a> &#8211; these inspired me with what was possible and what was important. I wasn’t finding this meaning in my day to day work however and that was a problem for me.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-back-to-my-roots\">Back To My Roots</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>One day, walking back from the neighborhood grocery store, I saw a storefront for rent. It had high ceilings, big front windows and lots of wall space. Sure, the main view was a giant empty lot but this felt like an opportunity to reclaim some of that autonomy I was missing and maybe pursue my artwork again. I gave notice at my job and invested some of my savings into renting the commercial space. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>From 2018 to 2022 I ran the storefront as a <a href=\"https://eatpaintstudio.com/\">gallery</a> showing emerging artists as well as my own work. I hosted artist talks, local musicians, and generally interfaced with the public. I also rebuilt my web design business in order to support this financially unprofitable venture. Though enjoyable, especially curating, I learned that running a gallery is also marketing, sales, writing, public speaking, and lots of people management. </p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>So, I had effectively given myself two challenging jobs for the price of one with still less time to make my own art.</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p></p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>Although I wasn’t painting as much as I wanted to, in my web development work, I found that I had learned something working at a design firm with other developers after all. I no longer relied on commercial builder themes. I was coding custom themes with Underscores &#8211; albeit haltingly, with many Google searches. I started to follow more WordPress folks on the now extant Twitter, people like <a href=\"https://aurooba.com/\">Aurooba Ahmed</a>, <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/podcast/146-frank-klein-on-redesigning-wordpress-the-shift-to-block-based-systems\">Fränk Klein</a>, <a href=\"https://heropress.com/essays/blessings-and-curses-of-turning-your-hobby-into-a-career/\" id=\"4948\">Carolina Nymark</a>, <a href=\"https://nickdiego.com/\">Nick Diego</a>, <a href=\"https://www.briancoords.com/\">Brian Coords</a>, <a href=\"https://bph.social/\">Birgit Pauli-Haack</a> and many others. I was staying current on WordPress news and through the conversations online, felt more a part of a community than I ever had at my former job.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-refocusing\">Refocusing</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>By March 2020, the pandemic mostly meant the gallery was closed. I couldn’t host public events. Without openings, there weren’t as many sales. Lots of neighborhood businesses closed. The vacant lot across the street that had promised to be a new apartment building remained a weedy lot with half-finished cement foundations and an increasingly elaborate display of graffiti. In 2022, the building I was renting space in was sold. I decided it was time to retrench. I went back to my home office and focused on web development work.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>When <a href=\"https://jonathanbossenger.com/\">Jonathan Bossenger</a> tweeted that he was looking for a designer to provide a <a href=\"https://alwaysopen.design/sendig-design-in-public/\">block theme</a> that he could code up in a tutorial, I eagerly volunteered. It was still early days for block themes and they required a big mental shift from PHP development. A lot of traditional developers were unhappy and vocal about it. Although we didn’t complete the block theme project, it was exciting to connect with people in WordPress in other parts of the world and to feel that we were all invested in learning together. I’d like to try to build that theme at some point  &#8211; I mean, I got the domain so I have to, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>For a few years, I kept to a hybrid theme approach, adding theme.json to a custom Underscore theme. </p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>I teetered on the edge of going for a pure block theme up until last year. Now, I believe it’s absolutely doable even for complex websites. </p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>With block themes, I can now set aside the several, weighty PHP books I had intended to study, and remain a generalist. If my development / Googling time is reduced, I can explore other aspects of web design that are interesting and fulfilling to me &#8211; like content strategy and web accessibility. </p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-where-i-go-from-here\">Where I Go From Here</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress has enabled me to build a career for myself and to wholly determine my own path. It’s also, as self-employment options go, relatively profitable. The overhead is low, there’s a lot of avenues to follow a specific interest or stay broad, collaboration opportunities, and above all to keep learning (if you’re into that).</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Web design and development in 2009 was different then it is in 2026. </p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>I’m not sure I could do today what I was able to do 20 years ago as a mostly non-technical person. </p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>Node, build processes, GitHub, tech bros, (not that those things are synonymous) are a little off-putting. The best way to learn is to do and, if there are too many prerequisites, you don’t.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But, WordPress is large and contains multitudes. The majority of people I’ve met through WordPress genuinely care about what they are building, why, and for whom. The open web is about inclusion, connection, and community &#8211; so, whether you are writing a blog post, contributing to a theme or plugin, or volunteering for WordPress in some way, everything we do matters. That cumulative effort is tangible and it’s a unique element of what WordPress is at its essence.</p>\n\n\n<section class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-group\" style=\"padding-top: 10px; padding-bottom: 10px; padding-left: 20px; padding-right: 20px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;\"><div class=\"kb-row-layout-wrap kb-row-layout-id8325_c9edfb-11 alignnone kt-row-has-bg wp-block-kadence-rowlayout\"><div class=\"kt-row-column-wrap kt-has-1-columns kt-row-layout-equal kt-tab-layout-inherit kt-mobile-layout-row kt-row-valign-top\">\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-column kadence-column8325_8cedb0-ab\"><div class=\"kt-inside-inner-col\">\n<h2 class=\"kt-adv-heading8325_af4f11-66 wp-block-kadence-advancedheading\" id=\"work-environment\">Emily&#8217;s Work Environment</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>We asked Emily for a view into her development life and this is what she sent!</p>\n\n\n	<div class=\"hotspots-image-container\">\n		<img alt=\"Emily Rapport&#8217;s Desk\" class=\"hotspots-image skip-lazy\" height=\"1920\" src=\"https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/erapport-office-scaled-1.webp\" width=\"2560\" />\n	</div>\n\n\n\n\n<p class=\"kt-adv-heading8325_2fc484-1d wp-block-kadence-advancedheading has-theme-palette-9-background-color has-background\">HeroPress would like to thank <a href=\"https://wpdrawattention.com/\">Draw Attention</a> for their donation of the plugin to make this interactive image!</p>\n</div></div>\n\n</div></div></section>\n\n<p>The post <a href=\"https://heropress.com/essays/how-art-school-led-me-to-web-design/\">How Art School Led Me To Web Design</a> appeared first on <a href=\"https://heropress.com\">HeroPress</a>.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 28 Jan 2026 13:42:11 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"Emily Rapport\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:13;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:73:\"Open Channels FM: How WooCommerce’s Open Source Model Spawns Innovation\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:33:\"https://openchannels.fm/?p=114271\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:77:\"https://openchannels.fm/how-woocommerces-open-source-model-spawns-innovation/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:168:\"Looking at WooCommerce’s open source nature, we learn  how community contributions drive innovation, foster flexibility, and ensure collaborative growth in ecommerce.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 28 Jan 2026 09:35:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:14;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:75:\"Open Channels FM: Fostering a Culture of Positive Learning in Accessibility\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:33:\"https://openchannels.fm/?p=114143\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:82:\"https://openchannels.fm/fostering-a-culture-of-positive-learning-in-accessibility/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:232:\"Accessibility in digital design should be an engaging process, fostering a supportive learning culture. When approached with empathy, it transforms obligation into enthusiasm, promoting effective learning and advocacy for inclusion.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 27 Jan 2026 14:56:44 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:15;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:65:\"Open Channels FM: Underfunded PHP Tools: A Global Business Threat\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:33:\"https://openchannels.fm/?p=114701\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:78:\"https://openchannels.fm/how-an-overlooked-php-tool-keeps-the-internet-running/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:231:\"In this episode of Open Web, host Anne chats with Juliette, the sole maintainer of PHP_CodeSniffer. They dive into the challenges of maintaining crucial open-source projects, funding issues, and AI\'s impact on software development.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 27 Jan 2026 10:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:16;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:17:\"Matt: What a Week\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23:\"https://ma.tt/?p=151148\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:34:\"https://ma.tt/2026/01/what-a-week/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:3576:\"<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">There are decades where nothing happens, and there are weeks where decades happen</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">No attribution, <a href=\"https://quoteinvestigator.com/2020/07/13/decades-weeks/\">but fun Quote Investigator dive</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Sorry for dropping off the daily blogging train; it just turned out to be a week of pleasant surprises and life-changing events. I’ll share with y’all the second-most exciting one. </p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I know I’ve been pushing you all to learn the AI coding stuff as deeply as possible, and I have been doing some myself, my favorite a few years ago, a script to count when we had too many words in a presentation slide, but I knew <a href=\"https://code.claude.com/docs/en/overview\">Claude Code</a> was something different and better.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">However, I fell into the trap of bookmarking and downloading tens of hours of Claude Code tutorials and not installing the thing itself. And work has been busy! My colleague <a href=\"https://davemart.in/\">Dave Martin</a> was hosting an internal livestream. I joined late, then had to leave because an important call came in. I decided to forget it all, throwing caution to the wind, and just install Claude Code and play with it without reading anything.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The next 24-36 hours are a bit of a blur. I haven’t locked into a multi-day coding session fueled by energy drinks, sugar, and cheesy carbs since my early 20s! There were some interruptions for previous commitments, but I basically became addicted to the feeling of that steep learning curve. Every minor annoyance or workflow became an opportunity to create new software in languages I’d never touched before. </p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It also really rewired my brain, even in how I talk. (Found myself saying “thinking” after a colleague’s question. <img alt=\"😂\" class=\"wp-smiley\" src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/17.0.2/72x72/1f602.png\" style=\"height: 1em;\" />) I’m thinking about problems in a much more structured manner now, how to divide and chunk tasks, and provide appropriate context and skills. I really do feel like my brain is being terraformed a bit.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So far I&#8217;ve written scripts or apps for grabbing daily summaries from my calendar, spinning up new projects and syncing them with Github, switching between Brave tabs better, an app to search and launch Brave tabs quickly&#8230; </p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Did you know that macOS Preview regressed and no longer lets you export a single page of a PDF as an image? I have an app that does that. What do I do with it? Do I open source it? Am I a Mac App developer now? Do I want to support this for other people forever? Should I even put it in source control? Or publish a set of tests and prompts, <a href=\"https://www.dbreunig.com/2026/01/08/a-software-library-with-no-code.html\">as Drew Brenig did with whenwords</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It&#8217;s a strange and wonderful time to be a lover of software and computers. A little bit of code goes a long way. I&#8217;m at a <a href=\"https://www.ccl.org/leadership-programs/leadership-at-the-peak-training-for-senior-executives/\">CCL leadership training</a> this week so offline during the days and exhausted at night but I gotta keep all those little bots running.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 27 Jan 2026 08:53:16 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4:\"Matt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:17;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:126:\"Gutenberg Times: AI Experiments, WordPress 7.0, Gutenberg 22.3 and 22.4, Playground for theme builders — Weekend Edition 354\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?p=44026\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:130:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/ai-experiments-wordpress-7-0-gutenberg-22-3-and-22-4-playground-for-theme-builders-weekend-edition-354/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:33252:\"<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Hi there! </p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Yes, it&#8217;s been a while. Did you miss me? I hope you and yours had a great start to the new year, and I wish you a healthy, happy and prosperous 2026. I am infinitely grateful you are a reader on this site and newsletter. Thank you for your ongoing support.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">My Year-End vacation directly merged into an intensive training and exploration into AI-first software development. It was eye-opening to say the least and entirely liberating. Ideas can be prototyped fairly quickly and their implementation is not stifled by the level of my personal coding skills. Success heavily depends on a clear vision, architectural consistency and radical quality control.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Although there was a downturn in publishing over the holidays, I found a plethora of posts and plugins again. This edition catches up on most of it. </p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Looking forward to going through our connecting with you in our eighth year of Gutenberg Times.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Yours, <img alt=\"💕\" class=\"wp-smiley\" src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/17.0.2/72x72/1f495.png\" style=\"height: 1em;\" /><br /><em>Birgit</em></p>\n\n\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"0-word-press-release-information\">Developing Gutenberg and WordPress</h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Aaron Jorbin</strong> published the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2026/01/20/wordpress-6-9-1-release-schedule/\"><strong>WordPress 6.9.1 Release Schedule</strong></a>. RC1 will be next week on January 29, 2026, and the final release on February 3, 2026. </p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The GitHub <a href=\"https://github.com/orgs/WordPress/projects/266\">project board of WordPress 6.9.x Editor Tasks</a> lists the PRs that will make it into the release in the <em>Done</em> column. Other core updates are available in this <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/tickets/minor/workflow\">trac report</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"wordpress-7-0\">WordPress 7.0</h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Jeff Paul</strong> <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2026/01/22/announcing-the-wordpress-7-0-release-squad/\">announced the <strong>WordPress 7.0 release squad</strong></a>, led by Gutenberg&#8217;s chief architect <strong>Matias Ventura</strong>. It&#8217;s a team of veterans and newbies spread around the globe.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Rae Morey</strong>, The Repository, also reported with more background and details on the state of real-time collaboration feature in her post: <strong><a href=\"https://www.therepository.email/matias-ventura-named-wordpress-7-0-release-lead-as-contributors-close-in-on-real-time-collaboration-approach\">Matías Ventura Named WordPress 7.0 Release Lead as Contributors Close In on Real-Time Collaboration Approach</a></strong></p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">WordPress 7.0 will run your <strong>post editor inside an iframe by default,</strong> so now&#8217;s the time to test your blocks for compatibility. If you&#8217;re still registering blocks with apiVersion 2, you&#8217;ll start seeing console warnings in WordPress 6.9. The main gotcha: your document and window references won&#8217;t work inside an iframe. You&#8217;ll need to switch to <code>useRefEffect</code> with <code>ownerDocument</code> and <code>defaultView</code> instead of globals. You can find more details in the <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/block-editor/reference-guides/block-api/block-api-versions/block-migration-for-iframe-editor-compatibility/\">official migration guide</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In his post <a href=\"https://www.unleash-wp.com/blog/wordpress-7-0-enforces-block-api-v3-why-existing-blocks-begin-to-fail/\"><strong>WordPress 7.0 Enforces Block API v3: Why Existing Blocks Begin to Fail</strong></a>, <strong>Benjamin Zekavica</strong>, core-team rep,  also provides some tips and Tricks. Custom blocks that target admin selectors like <code>.wp-admin</code> or <code>.editor-styles-wrapper</code>, rely on global <code>document</code> queries, or initialize libraries globally and now fail consistently. Reading through the article, it seems this is mostly related to agency work, with bespoke theme and block development on sites of the early block era.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"gutenberg-releases\">Gutenberg releases</h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Gutenberg 22.3 and 22.4 have been released. </p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Hector Prieto</strong> highlights in his release post <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2025/12/17/gutenberg-22-3-december-17/\">Gutenberg 22.3 (December 17)</a></p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2025/12/17/gutenberg-22-3-december-17/#dedicated-fonts-page-for-easier-typography-management\">Dedicated Fonts page for easier typography management</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2025/12/17/gutenberg-22-3-december-17/#image-editing-improvements\">Image editing improvements</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2025/12/17/gutenberg-22-3-december-17/#responsive-grid-block\">Responsive Grid block</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2025/12/17/gutenberg-22-3-december-17/#other-highlights\">Other highlights</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>JuanMa Garrido </strong>led the 22.4 release together with <strong>Anne McCarthy</strong> and they had to tame quite a large changelog with more than 400 PRs merged by 77 contributors, of whom 16 were first-timers! It must have been difficult to pick the top highlights for their release post <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2026/01/22/whats-new-in-gutenberg-22-4-20-january/\">What’s new in Gutenberg 22.4? (20 January)</a>:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/#classic-and-hybrid-theme-support-for-the-font-library\">Classic and Hybrid Theme Support for the Font Library</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/#pattern-overrides-custom-block-support\">Pattern Overrides: Custom Block Support</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/#image-block-focal-point-controls\">Image Block: Focal Point Controls</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/#block-visibility-based-on-screen-size-experimental\">Block Visibility Based on Screen Size (Experimental)</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/#other-notable-highlights\">Other Notable Highlights</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-light-background-background-color has-background\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><img alt=\"🎙\" class=\"wp-smiley\" src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/17.0.2/72x72/1f399.png\" style=\"height: 1em;\" /> The latest episode is <a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-125-wordpress-6-9-gutenberg-22-1-and-gutenberg-22-2/\">Gutenberg Changelog #125 – WordPress 6.9, Gutenberg 22.1 and Gutenberg 22.2</a> with <strong>JC Palmes</strong>, WebDev Studios</p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full is-style-no-vertical-margin\"><img alt=\"Gutenberg Changelog 125 with JC Palmes and host Birgit Pauli-Haack\" class=\"wp-image-43283\" height=\"186\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/11/Screenshot-2025-11-28-at-18.19.29.png?resize=652%2C186&#038;ssl=1\" width=\"652\" /></figure>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-showhide ng-block\" width=\"100%\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-rich is-provider-pocket-casts wp-block-embed-pocket-casts\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div></figure>\n</div></div></div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Justin Tadlock</strong>&#8216;s <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2026/01/whats-new-for-developers-january-2026/\"><strong>January developer roundup</strong></a> covers new responsive Grid blocks with adjustable columns and widths, an easy-to-use Fonts admin screen, and experimental PHP-only block registration with full metadata. New tools include an image cropper and an updated Abilities API client. The Breadcrumbs block is on track for WordPress 7.0, and Navigation overlay tests are allowing template part assignments. Playground now features a DevTools extension and a new dashboard interface.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"0-p\">Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners</h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you&#8217;ve ever watched a client accidentally drag your carefully crafted block layout into chaos, <strong>Eric Karkovack</strong> has your back. In his guide on <a href=\"https://speckyboy.com/protect-wordpress-block-layouts\"><strong>How to Protect WordPress Block Layouts From Accidental Changes</strong></a> he walks you through two built-in WordPress safeguards: save your layouts as exportable block patterns you can restore anytime, then use the Lock feature to let clients update content without rearranging your design. You can even lock entire Group blocks at once for extra security. </p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Wes Theron</strong> demonstrates the <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61xb2zfep28\"><strong>Details block for WordPres</strong></a>s, showcasing how you can create collapsible sections perfect for FAQs, definitions, transcripts, and supplemental content. The tutorial covers inserting the block, navigating with List View, and customization options for keeping pages organized and tidy. Theron walks through practical examples showing how the accordion-style functionality helps hide and reveal content on demand, offering a native WordPress solution for managing long explanations without cluttering the page layout.</p>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-showhide ng-block\" width=\"100%\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div></figure>\n</div>\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Matthew Cowan</strong> released <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/find-blocks-patterns-shortcodes/\"><strong>Find Blocks, Patterns &amp; Shortcodes</strong></a>, a plugin that helps users locate Gutenberg blocks on WordPress sites and allows CSV export for content audits. The tool includes batch processing, post-type filtering, synced pattern searches, and WP-CLI support, with sortable results tables. It also features security measures like rate limiting and XSS prevention, and improves accessibility for screen readers and keyboard navigation.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In his post <a href=\"https://kinsta.com/blog/magic-effects-wordpress-core-blocks/\"><strong>How to create magic effects in WordPress with core blocks</strong></a>, <strong>Joel Olawanle</strong> demonstrates creating cinematic effects using only WordPress core blocks, focusing on the Cover block&#8217;s layering capabilities. In his tutorial, Olawanle covers fixed backgrounds for parallax simulation, scroll snap with minimal CSS, creative typography using duotone filters and blend modes, and multi-layered depth through nested Group blocks. Olawanle emphasizes building premium visuals while maintaining performance through native blocks, avoiding heavy page builders and keeping sites lightweight, accessible, and fast.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Matt Cromwell</strong> created the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/synced-pattern-popups/\"><strong>Synced Pattern Popups</strong></a> plugin, which turns WordPress&#8217;s reusable synced patterns into modal popups that load content with AJAX and use smart caching. Triggers can be activated using simple class or href attributes, and third-party blocks display correctly with good styling. The plugin supports accessibility with keyboard navigation and ARIA support, has an optional AI-powered summary feature, and works with WordPress 6.9&#8217;s Abilities API for automated workflows—all without any setup needed.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Justin Tadlock</strong>&#8216;s <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/x3p0-media-data/\"><strong>Media Data plugin</strong></a> reveals hidden information from uploaded files—like camera settings, audio tags, and video codecs—through easy-to-use editor blocks that need no coding. Photographers can show exposure details below images, podcasters can add artist info next to players, and archivists can log file sizes and lengths, all using WordPress&#8217;s existing metadata with customizable labels and complete block theme integration. Users of WordPress 6.9 also benefit from Block Bindings support for improved workflows.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Troy Chaplin</strong>&#8216;s <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/priority-plus-navigation/\"><strong>Priority Plus Navigation</strong></a> plugin enhances the core Navigation block by managing menu items more efficiently. When space is limited, it moves items into a dropdown for better accessibility. Using <a href=\"https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/ResizeObserver\">ResizeObserver</a>, it monitors width and changes submenus into a &#8220;More&#8221; dropdown while following core overlay settings. The plugin fully supports theme.json for customizing dropdown styles, hover effects, and separators, and ensures keyboard navigation and screen reader compatibility.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Kadim Gültekin</strong> created <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/block-style-modifiers/\"><strong>Block Style Modifiers</strong></a> plugin to enhance Gutenberg&#8217;s block styles with additional CSS classes that can layer together. Developers can easily add modifiers for specific blocks or globally using simple PHP functions and can reorder these classes in the editor sidebar. An experimental companion pack showcases hover effects, responsive utilities, and overlay treatments.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In his <a href=\"https://kau-boys.com/4348/advent-calendar/campaign-archive-block-for-mailchimp-show-an-archive-of-your-newsletter-on-your-website\">post</a>, <strong>Bernhard Kau</strong> presents his <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/campaign-archive-block-for-mailchimp/\"><strong>Campaign Archive Block</strong></a> plugin, which fixes Mailchimp&#8217;s complicated archive problem by creating dynamic API-driven listings instead of manual archives. Annoyed with Mailchimp&#8217;s clunky JavaScript and formatting issues, Kau developed a plugin that automatically pulls archives and can share API credentials with other Mailchimp plugins. Users can set the display count, choose between title and subject, and include sender metadata, reducing the need for manual updates after sending emails.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Johanne Courtright</strong> released <a href=\"https://groundworx.dev/resources/groundworx-core-1-3-0-introducing-dynamic-flow-static-flow-featured-posts/\"><strong>Groundworx Core 1.3.0 with Dynamic Flow,</strong></a> a query-powered carousel filtering posts by taxonomy or keywords with curated mode for manual selection, Static Flow for building custom slide carousels with any blocks and media pause controls, and Featured Posts displaying content in responsive grids. The update adds responsive breakpoint systems across layouts, block transforms between post disp</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"2-word-press-6-0-1-and-6-1-scheduled\">Theme Development for Full Site Editing and Blocks</h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In my latest post, I show <a href=\"https://wordpress.com/blog/2026/01/05/build-a-wordpress-theme-demo-with-playground-blueprints/\"><strong>how WordPress Playground Blueprints turn theme demos</strong></a> from basic setups into fully functional sites in a browser. Developers create demo content locally, export it, and host assets on GitHub to avoid CORS issues. They then make JSON files that define installation steps, including content import and site setup. The WordPress Importer automatically resizes media and updates URLs. Using this method theme builders can share  links that launch complete working demos with sample content, navigation, and settings preserved.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">On the Developer Blog, you can read my article <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2026/01/streamlining-block-theme-development-with-wordpress-playground-and-github/\"><strong>Streamlining block theme development with WordPress Playground and GitHub</strong></a>, where I explained a simple workflow using WordPress Playground, the Create Block Theme plugin, and GitHub to connect visual design with version control. Designers can work entirely within browser-based Playground instances, using CBT&#8217;s <strong>Save Changes</strong> to update theme files and submit pull requests to GitHub—without needing to use a terminal or code editor. This method makes it easier for anyone to work on block themes while upholding professional development standards. It&#8217;s the blog post to the presentation I gave at WordCamp Gdynia last September. The video is now <a href=\"https://wordpress.tv/2025/09/30/streamlined-block-theme-development-using-wordpress-playground-and-github-for-no-code-version-contr/\">available on WordPressTV</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n<div class=\"ng-block-19e40d64f6b390f3 wp-block-newsletterglue-container ng-block\" style=\"color: #666666;\" width=\"100%\"><div><div><div class=\"ng-block-vs ng-block-vs-1\" colspan=\"3\" height=\"0\" style=\"height: 0px;\"></div></div><div><div class=\"ng-block-hs ng-block-hs-1\" height=\"0\" style=\"width: 0px;\"></div><div align=\"none\" class=\"ng-block-td\" style=\"font-size: 16px; font-family: Helvetica; line-height: 1.6; font-weight: normal; padding-top: 20px; padding-bottom: 20px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; text-align: none; color: #666666; background-color: #fdfcea; border-radius: 12px;\"><div class=\"ng-block-acfe2dadf1612ba0 wp-block-newsletterglue-text ng-block\" style=\"color: #666666;\" width=\"100%\"><div><div><div align=\"none\" class=\"ng-block-td\" style=\"font-size: 16px; font-family: Helvetica; line-height: 1.6; font-weight: normal; padding-top: 8px; padding-bottom: 10px; padding-left: 20px; padding-right: 20px; text-align: none; color: #666666;\"><p><strong> <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\">&#8220;Keeping up with Gutenberg &#8211; Index 2025&#8221;</a> </strong><br />A chronological list of the WordPress Make Blog posts from various teams involved in Gutenberg development: Design, Theme Review Team, Core Editor, Core JS, Core CSS, Test, and Meta team from Jan. 2024 on. Updated by yours truly. </p></div></div></div></div>\n\n<div class=\"ng-block-8c52bfafc7ba3ea6 wp-block-newsletterglue-text ng-block\" style=\"color: #666666;\" width=\"100%\"><div><div><div align=\"none\" class=\"ng-block-td\" style=\"font-size: 16px; font-family: Helvetica; line-height: 1.6; font-weight: normal; padding-top: 8px; padding-bottom: 10px; padding-left: 20px; padding-right: 20px; text-align: none; color: #666666;\"><p>The previous years are also available: <br /><strong><strong><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2020/\">2020</a> | <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2021/\">2021</a></strong> | <strong><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2022/\">2022</a></strong></strong> | <strong><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/gutenberg-index-2023\">2023</a></strong> | <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/gutenberg-index-2024/\"><strong>2024</strong></a></p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=\"ng-block-hs ng-block-hs-2\" height=\"0\" style=\"width: 0px;\"></div></div><div><div class=\"ng-block-vs ng-block-vs-2\" colspan=\"3\" height=\"0\" style=\"height: 0px;\"></div></div></div></div>\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press\">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor</h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Carlo Daniele</strong> explores the<a href=\"https://kinsta.com/blog/wordpress-block-bindings-api/\"><strong> Block Bindings API for Kinsta</strong></a>, demonstrating how to connect external data sources to Gutenberg blocks. The tutorial walks you through registering custom binding sources, fetching weather data from Open-Meteo API, and creating a UI for custom sources introduced in WordPress 6.9. Daniele builds a practical example binding temperature and conditions to Paragraph blocks, showcasing how the API transforms WordPress into a dynamic application platform beyond traditional blogging.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Ian Svoboda</strong> helps developers with <a href=\"https://www.learnwptheme.dev/building-a-custom-block-part-1-scaffolding-block-files/\"><strong>creating custom blocks using the create-block package</strong></a>. He covers static and dynamic rendering options and explains important files like block.json, edit.js, and save.js. In his tutorial, he builds a dismissible Notice block, outlines naming conventions for assets in the editor and frontend, and demonstrates automatic block registration with glob pattern matching. Developers need local environments and build tools like <code>wordpress/scripts</code> or <code>10up-toolkit</code>.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In his last week&#8217;s live stream, <strong>Ryan Welcher</strong> went fully into PHP mode and <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX1TkFYBMqs\"><strong>build Custom WordPress Blocks WITHOUT JavaScript</strong></a>. The Gutenberg plugin now also entails a PHP-only block API in version 22.2 and refined in 22.3. Check out the video and see how it all works.</p>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-showhide ng-block\" width=\"100%\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div></figure>\n</div>\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Paulo Carvajal</strong> published a comprehensive guide on <strong><a href=\"https://wp-block-editor.com/the-interactivity-api-state-flow-a-comprehensive-guide-for-large-scale-applications/\">managing Interactivity API state flow for large-scale WordPress applications</a>. </strong>You&#8217;ll learn the three foundational pillars: Global State for page-wide data, Local Context for component isolation, and Derived State for reactive consistency. You also learn unidirectional data patterns, asynchronous actions with withSyncEvent, store namespacing, and server-side hydration strategies to help you build performant enterprise projects.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"wordpress-and-ai\">WordPress and AI </h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In his <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sa827ct7W_I\"><strong>latest video</strong></a>, <strong>Jonathan Bossenger</strong> discussed recent AI-related news in WordPress, including the Plugin Check Namer tool for evaluating plugin names and the introduction of the Abilities API JavaScript client in Gutenberg.  He also showcased the AI Experiments plugin and WP Bench for evaluating the AI capabilities in WordPress development. </p>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-showhide ng-block\" width=\"100%\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div></figure>\n</div>\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">As <strong>James Le Page</strong> <a href=\"https://x.com/jameswlepage/status/2013997689155805461\">announced on X</a>, the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/ai/\"><strong>AI Experiments plugin</strong></a> has received significant updates that include AI-powered excerpt generation fully integrated with the editor, along with a new Abilities Explorer admin screen for viewing registered AI features. The backend now supports Content Summarization and Image Generation experiments, which are pending UI development. Additionally, documentation and onboarding materials were improved, and WordPress Playground preview support was added to streamline workflows, allowing developers to test changes directly from pull requests.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Ray Morey</strong> has the skinny for you here: <a href=\"https://www.therepository.email/ai-experiments-0-2-0-adds-excerpt-generation-and-abilities-explorer\"><strong>AI Experiments 0.2.0 Adds Excerpt Generation and Abilities Explorer </strong></a></p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>WordVell</strong>&#8216;s editorial team examined <a href=\"https://wordvell.com/ai-use-cases-of-mcp-for-wordpress-and-woocommerce/\"><strong>fourteen practical MCP implementations changing WordPress and WooCommerce</strong></a> workflows from manual tasks to AI-driven automation. This protocol allows natural language commands, such as &#8220;publish this post,&#8221; to be executed instantly via servers like InstaWP, OttoKit, and n8n. Use cases include AI-driven content creation with SEO, automating admin tasks across sites, product search conversations, personalized customization, and guided checkout experiences.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>James Le Page</strong> also <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/ai/2026/01/14/introducing-wp-bench-a-wordpress-ai-benchmark/\"><strong>announced WP-Bench</strong></a>, a benchmark that measures how well language models understand WordPress development. This tool assesses models on WordPress APIs, hooks, security patterns, and features like the Abilities API while testing code in a secure WordPress environment. The goal is to set a standard evaluation for AI providers, encouraging them to improve for WordPress&#8217;s many developers.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>David Levine</strong>, a senior software engineer at rtCamp, explained in the article <a href=\"https://rtcamp.com/resources/abilities-api-making-wordpress-more-composable/\"><strong>Beyond AI: What the Abilities API means for WordPress Composability</strong></a> that the new Abilities API allows developers to register specific &#8220;abilities&#8221; using a clear, machine-readable format. This approach replaces scattered hooks and custom REST endpoints, making plugins and core features more composable. It helps third-party code integrate easily without needing extensive knowledge of internal functions. The API also allows AI and automated tools to find and use capabilities automatically, leading to a more modular and future-ready WordPress ecosystem while maintaining backward compatibility for gradual changes. </p>\n\n\n<div class=\"ng-block-5e4637bcd16a5c2b wp-block-newsletterglue-container ng-block\" style=\"color: #666666;\" width=\"100%\"><div><div><div class=\"ng-block-vs ng-block-vs-1\" colspan=\"3\" height=\"0\" style=\"height: 0px;\"></div></div><div><div class=\"ng-block-hs ng-block-hs-1\" height=\"0\" style=\"width: 0px;\"></div><div align=\"none\" class=\"ng-block-td\" style=\"font-size: 16px; font-family: Helvetica; line-height: 1.6; font-weight: normal; padding-top: 20px; padding-bottom: 20px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; text-align: none; color: #666666; background-color: #f8f8f8; border-radius: 8px;\"><div class=\"ng-block-b44785b18261fb0b wp-block-newsletterglue-text ng-block\" style=\"color: #666666;\" width=\"100%\"><div><div><div align=\"none\" class=\"ng-block-td\" style=\"font-size: 16px; font-family: Helvetica; line-height: 1.6; font-weight: normal; padding-top: 8px; padding-bottom: 10px; padding-left: 20px; padding-right: 20px; text-align: none; color: #666666;\"><p><strong><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/need-a-zip-from-master/\">Need a plugin .zip from Gutenberg&#8217;s master branch?</a></strong><br />Gutenberg Times provides daily build for testing and review.</p></div></div></div></div>\n\n<div class=\"ng-block-b8e3dd6487e38954 wp-block-newsletterglue-image ng-block size-full is-resized\" width=\"100%\"><div><div><div align=\"center\" class=\"ng-block-td\" style=\"padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px;\"><a href=\"https://playground.wordpress.net/?blueprint-url=https://gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/playnightly.json\"><img alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-42874 ng-image\" height=\"45\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Screenshot-2025-11-15-at-12.06.44.png?resize=196%2C45&#038;ssl=1\" style=\"border-style: none; border-color: transparent;\" width=\"196\" /></a></div></div></div></div>\n\n<div class=\"ng-block-a8ff1470ac3d5a62 wp-block-newsletterglue-text ng-block\" style=\"color: #666666;\" width=\"100%\"><div><div><div align=\"none\" class=\"ng-block-td\" style=\"font-size: 16px; font-family: Helvetica; line-height: 1.6; font-weight: normal; padding-top: 8px; padding-bottom: 10px; padding-left: 20px; padding-right: 20px; text-align: none; color: #666666;\"><p>Now also available via <a href=\"https://playground.wordpress.net/?blueprint-url=https://gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/playnightly.json\">WordPress Playground</a>. There is no need for a test site locally or on a server. Have you been using it? <a href=\"mailto:pauli@gutenbergtimes.com\">Email me </a>with your experience.</p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=\"ng-block-hs ng-block-hs-2\" height=\"0\" style=\"width: 0px;\"></div></div><div><div class=\"ng-block-vs ng-block-vs-2\" colspan=\"3\" height=\"0\" style=\"height: 0px;\"></div></div></div></div>\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-center has-small-font-size wp-block-paragraph\"><em>Questions? Suggestions? Ideas? </em><br /><em>Don&#8217;t hesitate to send <a href=\"mailto:pauli@gutenbergtimes.com\">them via email</a> or</em><br /><em> send me a message on WordPress Slack or Twitter @bph</em>.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-center has-small-font-size wp-block-paragraph\">For questions to be answered on the <a href=\"http://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast\">Gutenberg Changelog</a>, <br />send them to <a href=\"mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com\">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a></p>\n\n\n<div class=\"ng-block-c1d5900049a80643 wp-block-newsletterglue-separator ng-block\" style=\"color: #666666;\" width=\"100%\"><div><div><div align=\"center\" class=\"ng-block-td\" style=\"padding-top: 20px; padding-bottom: 20px; padding-left: 20px; padding-right: 20px; color: #666666;\"><hr style=\"background-color: transparent; color: transparent; margin: 0; border: 0; border-top: 1px solid #666666; width: 560px; height: 0;\" /></div></div></div></div>\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-showhide ng-block\" width=\"100%\"><div class=\"ng-block-196edece96ba1a02 wp-block-newsletterglue-text ng-block\" style=\"color: #666666;\" width=\"100%\"><div><div><div align=\"none\" class=\"ng-block-td\" style=\"font-size: 14px; font-family: Helvetica; line-height: 0.2; font-weight: normal; padding-top: 8px; padding-bottom: 10px; padding-left: 20px; padding-right: 20px; text-align: none; color: #666666;\"><p><strong>Featured Image: </strong>Ai generated.</p></div></div></div></div></div>\n\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sat, 24 Jan 2026 06:05:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:18:\"Birgit Pauli-Haack\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:18;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:39:\"Open Channels FM: It’s Okay to Let Go\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:33:\"https://openchannels.fm/?p=114519\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:48:\"https://openchannels.fm/when-its-time-to-let-go/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:156:\"Being a creator also means there are many times where it\'s tough to let go of ideas or even businesses. You need to figure out that sweet spot for yourself.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 23 Jan 2026 12:38:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:19;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:93:\"Open Channels FM: Growing Agency Success with People-Centric Values and Open Source Education\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:33:\"https://openchannels.fm/?p=114458\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:100:\"https://openchannels.fm/growing-agency-success-with-people-centric-values-and-open-source-education/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:206:\"In this episode, Anne Bovelett chats with Rahul Bansal and Aviral Mittal from rtCamp, highlighting the agency\'s growth since 2009, commitment to accessibility, and innovative training programs in WordPress.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Thu, 22 Jan 2026 09:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:20;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:81:\"WPTavern: #201 – Marc Benzakein on How Life Has Changed During the Internet Era\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:48:\"https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=202326\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:95:\"https://wptavern.com/podcast/201-marc-benzakein-on-how-life-has-changed-during-the-internet-era\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:66612:\"<details>Transcript<div>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:00:19] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Welcome to the Jukebox Podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Jukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress, the people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case how life has changed during the internet era.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice, or by going to wptavern.com/feed/podcast, and you can copy that URL into most podcast players.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m keen to hear from you and hopefully get you, or your idea, featured on the show. Head to wptavern.com/contact/jukebox, and use the form there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So on the podcast today, we have Marc Benzakein. Marc&#8217;s story is one that spans nearly the entire history of the internet, with roots reaching back to the mid nineties. He explores, how curiosity and an enthusiastic embrace of technology led him from running a small coffee importing business, accepting payments by snail mail, fax, then email, to helping wire up schools for internet access when modems worked incredibly slowly, and only a handful of people were online.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This episode is a departure from our usual topic about plugins, themes, and WordPress community news. Instead, we are more in the business of reminiscing this week, taking a reflective walk down memory lane to look at how the internet has evolved, not just as a technology, but as an integral part of society that&#8217;s transformed how we work, communicate, and think.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Marc shares some personal stories, building bulletin board systems, forging long distance friendships over phone lines and slow modems, and watching as internet access shifted from an intentional, difficult to navigate hobby for a few, to an invisible always on utility that we all take for granted.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We talk about how technology has affected not only business and productivity, often creating more work instead of less, but also our attention spans, expectations around entertainment, the pace of life, and even the social fabric that binds us together.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We discuss the cultural shifts that came with always connected living, digital minimalism, and the recent push by younger generations to step back from tech and reclaim a bit of analog life.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We chat about the early optimism of open standards, the rise of walled gardens and social networks, and the challenges of regulation, commercialisation, and the balancing act between freedom and responsibility online.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Marc&#8217;s perspective is shaped by decades of direct technical experience, as well as thoughtful observations of how technology is reshaping the world around us, sometimes for the better, sometimes in ways we need to pause and question.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Whether you are nostalgic for the old days of dial up, intrigued by how the internet&#8217;s culture has shifted, or curious about how these transformations might play out as new technologies like AI reshape society, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you&#8217;re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to wptavern.com/podcast, where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And so without further delay, I bring you Marc Benzakein.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I am joined on the podcast by Marc Benzakein. Hello, Marc.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:03:44] <strong>Marc Benzakein:</strong> Hello, Nathan. How are you?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:03:45] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, good. This is going to be an episode unlike one I think we&#8217;ve ever done on the WP Tavern podcast. Because usually we have a conversation about, I don&#8217;t know, a plugin, a theme, a community idea, something along those lines. And today we&#8217;re just going to do memory lane. We&#8217;re going to go hand in hand down memory lane.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I think Marc&#8217;s memory lane is a little bit longer than my memory lane because it&#8217;s all about the internet and the way we&#8217;ve been using it and how it&#8217;s evolved and all of that. So if you&#8217;ve got an expectation of a plugin show, this is not the one for you. This is going to be a little bit different.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So before we crack in properly and have that conversation, Marc, would you just sort of paint the picture a little bit about your bio? Maybe go back right to the beginning of your experiences on the internet. When did you first get online and all that kind of stuff?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:04:30] <strong>Marc Benzakein:</strong> So I want to go back to, I think it was 1995 or 1996. There was a, of course people hear about, and it still exists, AOL and things like that. And then there was Prodigy. I got involved as a user of the internet with a company called Netcom. And it was kind of one of the first true internet service providers that I knew of at the time. It wasn&#8217;t like, it didn&#8217;t have like this interface and kind of guide you through where you needed to go and everything. You had to use things like Gopher, and you had to do research in order to be able to use the internet.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I of course, became fascinated with it always being a, kind of a tech head or just curious. I&#8217;m just infinitely curious. It doesn&#8217;t really matter, it doesn&#8217;t have to be technology. It can be anything and I find it, like I said, I&#8217;m infinitely curious and that leads to distractions sometimes, but it also leads me down paths that I never would&#8217;ve thought.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And while I was working on the internet, so this was at a time that I was actually importing coffee from Africa. So yeah, so related. So related. And I had actually made some pretty good money with the coffee business. I was doing the email thing. I had like my three friends who had email addresses and we were like, oh, this is cool. Look at this, instant gratification. And I thought, man, it sure would be cool to see what this looks like from the other side of things. Because I have no clue how any of this works.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And so curious thing happened with the coffee company. I was importing from a country called Burundi in Africa. Some people know where it is, some people don&#8217;t. I actually never visited, but my uncle was actually a big shot in the agriculture department there which is how I had the connection to be able to import coffee into the United States. They had a lot of civil and political unrest, and essentially burned the coffee fields. And my uncle fled the country because it had become so dangerous.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So one day I&#8217;m, basically I had set up a system in which I import the coffee, it goes to a distributor. Once a month I would go out to the mailbox and collect a cheque. And that was my job. It was the easiest thing I ever did, once I got the system built. And so, lo and behold, civil unrest and all that, which was just awful by the way, but I&#8217;m out of business because I can&#8217;t import coffee from Burundi. And I was really young, and probably not smart enough to think, maybe I should back this up with other countries too.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But coincidentally, a person that I had gone to high school with, they built computers for schools and things like that, so they had some government contracts and things like that. And they had this crazy idea that they wanted to connect schools to the internet. And they wanted to give them high speed access. Now, keep in mind that back in these days we&#8217;re talking about 14.4K, it was, well, we thought it was fast at the time. You know, you had US robotics with their HST standard. And we thought that we were doing well, but most people were actually on 24 hundreds back then.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So if you can imagine that, 2,400 baud modems. I remember it like it was a meal ago. I mean it was just crazy. And so now, I was like importing coffee and I was trying to figure out what to do next and Greg Franklin, who I have partnered with since like the eighties, we&#8217;ve been through a lot. We were partners at ServerPress. We&#8217;ve been through it all. He and I, you know, we were always good friends. And he says, hey, I&#8217;m going to work with Phil and Steve on this internet thing, and it&#8217;d be kind of cool if you help me out because I have no clue what I&#8217;m doing. I&#8217;m like, well, I have no clue what I&#8217;m doing either. And he said, yeah, but between the two of us, we can figure it out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So the idea was, they had already set up, Phil and Steve, who were the other partners in this company, they had set up digital ISDN access. Now, ISDN, let&#8217;s see, what did that stand for? Something, something, digital network.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:08:32] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I can&#8217;t remember what the acronym stood for, but it was banded around a lot, I remember that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:08:36] <strong>Marc Benzakein:</strong> Yeah. And what made it fantastic was you had a modem, okay, but it was kind of on demand. So when your computer sent out a network request that was outside of your internal network, which nobody had home internal networks back then. You know, if they had a computer, that was it, right? Back then, internal networks were things like, there was like LANtastic was one of them, and then there was Novell networking and all that stuff. So it was like that token ring network stuff, right? Okay. So you have to go way back, right? So I can&#8217;t believe I&#8217;m remembering some of these terms because it&#8217;s been so long.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:09:11] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, I remember all of the ways that they could be connected. I remember seeing the, you know, you&#8217;d read through TCP IP documentation and there&#8217;d be diagrams of computers connected with T cables all in circles because that was the most efficient way to connect them all. Oh gosh, you&#8217;ve taken me back.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:09:26] <strong>Marc Benzakein:</strong> It wasn&#8217;t just the most efficient way, it was, if any part of that ring broke, the whole network broke down. You had have it, you know? So this concept of plugging into a switch or a router or something like that was like completely, pardon the pun, but completely novel. Not Novell, novel.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:09:45] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Novell, yeah, very good. Very good.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:09:48] <strong>Marc Benzakein:</strong> So I built a lot of token ring systems for local businesses and things like that, but nobody had a network at home. They generally, at most had one computer at home. And when they wanted to go online, I should go back even before that, I used to run a bulletin board service, a BBS, which was even more ridiculous than a 2,400 baud modem.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:10:11] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> This was when there were like three people in the United States online.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:10:14] <strong>Marc Benzakein:</strong> Yeah. And essentially I would have my computer, I was living in an apartment at the time. I would have my computer set up and only one person could connect at a time to my computer, which was set up with this BBS software on it. And they would play games. I had downloads of different files and things like that. I was the first BBS in our region to have a one gigabyte SCSI hard drive. And so I became very, obviously my BBS became very popular, not because I offered anything incredible, but because I had a one gigabyte hard drive.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:10:47] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, you had the badge of honor.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:10:48] <strong>Marc Benzakein:</strong> Yeah. And word spread quickly and all that. In the old fashioned ways, which was carrier pigeons and things like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:10:53] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> That&#8217;s right. There was no, yeah, or the bulletin board.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:10:57] <strong>Marc Benzakein:</strong> Yeah, or the bulletin, yeah. And I think that was probably where I got kind of this taste of like how cool it could be because I would modify my own stuff. So I would, we used a bulletin board software called WWIV. It was all C++ coded. And there was this guy that somehow I found, I don&#8217;t even know, in Virginia. His name was Tony. And he and I got to be really good friends because he ran a bulletin board system too in Virginia and I&#8217;m in California. And we would get on phone calls, long distance mind you. If you remember what long distance was.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We would talk for hours and this guy was one of the funniest guys I&#8217;ve ever met. I mean we would, he would just call me up to tell me, we got to the point where he&#8217;d just call me up to tell me jokes and we would just laugh for hours. But he was in the military. He worked on the helicopters that flew George Bush senior around. He was in the Marines.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And we met up one time because he flew out to California. But that&#8217;s a whole side story. So that&#8217;s where I got started. And then I invested in a US Robotics 14.4 HST modem. So I could do, yeah, 14,400K per second, which was like, I don&#8217;t know what the time of $500 modem or something ridiculous like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:12:10] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, you&#8217;ve suddenly taken your computer onto the highway instead of being stuck on back lanes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:12:16] <strong>Marc Benzakein:</strong> Right. So not only did I have my one gigabyte SCSI drive, but I also had high speed BBS connection.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:12:23] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> You got all the bling that you can have.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:12:26] <strong>Marc Benzakein:</strong> I had all the bling on my 286 computer. It might have been a 486, I don&#8217;t know. I don&#8217;t remember the computer. But what was funny was like you would sit there, we&#8217;d be watching TV and I&#8217;d hear my modem go off because someone would be connecting to the BBS. I would drop what I was doing just so that I could go and see what they were doing, right? Because at my end I could see everything that people were doing, so on top of it all. That was probably my foray into the internet, even though I didn&#8217;t realise it at the time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:12:53] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Although for a proportion of the listeners, they&#8217;ll be kind of nodding their head and going, oh yeah, all of the things that you described make perfect sense. I guess for a significant proportion of the audience, all of this will sort of sound like a mystery. But hopefully you&#8217;ll have got some impression, deal listener, the internet as we now know it, where it&#8217;s ubiquitous, it really is everywhere. You know, you&#8217;ve got a connection if you&#8217;re walking down the street with your cellular network and what have you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In the part of the world, certainly where I live, and I imagine where you live, there&#8217;s no real black spot where the internet does not really exist. And everything&#8217;s really straightforward. You buy a device from a shop, turn it on and it connects almost immediately. And yet that really wasn&#8217;t the case. It was kind of like more pioneering days. Most things didn&#8217;t work, but it was a heck of a lot of fun, and a heck of a lot hobbying. So more of actually. Now that I think about it, that&#8217;s the best way to phrase it. It was a hobby, things to do.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:13:48] <strong>Marc Benzakein:</strong> It absolutely was a hobby. Very few of us actually had, well, I don&#8217;t think any of us had the foresight that the internet would become what it is right now. At least none of the people in my circles. I think it was, it would be the equivalent of like being a Ham radio operator. You know, it&#8217;s kind of the same sort of thing. You kind of felt like you were part of this like little elite group of people who understood how it worked and could make it work, and it made you feel special. And for those of us who grew up kind of being that nerd in high school and things like that, and especially back in the seventies and eighties when, I mean I went to school, there were only three people who even knew how to use a keyboard on a computer. And of course we, I mean they made a fricking movie called Revenge of the Nerds. They made fun of us.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It&#8217;s amazing that we haven&#8217;t had, well, I think a lot of us have had to go through years and years and years of therapy. And I think that I just probably deflected a lot of that sort of treatment of nerds with like a very sharp tongue and a, you know, a very, I would laugh at it and things like that. So that was kind of my coping mechanism probably. And I probably have some trauma from all that that I don&#8217;t even remember. But there&#8217;s probably something there, but that&#8217;s a whole other show. We can talk about that another time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:15:00] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah. So the fact that it was a hobby and also the fact that, so my recollections start a little bit later than yours, but we&#8217;re not like a whole decade out of kilter. I think you definitely started at times where I can remember some of that stuff. You certainly got the march on me. But nevertheless, I don&#8217;t think in my estimation I had any conception that it would grow beyond a thing that hobbyists did.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So I think it was always going to remain this sort of niche hobby thing. Maybe some sort of place where you would communicate with a handful of people, and that handful of people would be, you know, equally nerdy in the same way that you or I were. But no expectation that it would be adopted en masse. No expectation that every single human being would have some sort of device, either that they&#8217;re walking around with or just in their home or anything like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And so I think, looking back, I predicted it would just be this hobby thing and would never grow into anything else. And so it was just a bit of a lark, a bit of fun. Something that you&#8217;d put away from time, you know, you would set it down, go and do your regular day, then come back. There was no email, nothing like that. So you could safely put it away and then come back to it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I look back on it very fondly. It&#8217;s almost like halcyon days. And so many things that the internet has been connected with, and is connected with now are fabulous, but there&#8217;s also a lot of downsides which have come serendipitously along the way as well. Nobody foresaw those either. So I think, like I say, it was sort of halcyon days. Just this notion that it would be, I don&#8217;t know, unicorns and rainbows all the way down.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:16:33] <strong>Marc Benzakein:</strong> Right. The closest prediction that I had made back then was I said, you know, one day we are all going to be connected. But I thought it was going to be one of these kind of like, we go on and we intentionally connect with each other, not like we&#8217;re always connected all the time kind of thing. Of course I was young and quite the gamer at the time. I said, here&#8217;s what&#8217;s going to happen is, I predict that one day games will exist where we keep all the files on our own systems, and the only thing that&#8217;s being transmitted to each other is just data to like, so we can like play together all at the same time in these games.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That was my prediction and people would laugh at me. And now of course it&#8217;s gone way, way, way beyond that. But every once in a while I&#8217;m like, see, I told them and I did nothing about it. I just knew it was going to happen and I did nothing about it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:17:20] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I remember when I was at school, sitting in a physics class, and I for some reason got sat next to probably the nerdiest nerd I&#8217;ve ever met. I won&#8217;t name him, but he is still very nerdy. He really was like on the extreme end of interested in all of this kind of stuff. And I remember we got into a conversation once where he said, do you know what I think is going to happen in the future? I think you&#8217;ll be able to, so we still had cathode ray tellies, so you&#8217;d turn the tele on, you&#8217;d wait for three minutes for the TV to warm up, and then the picture would slowly appear. And that was the level that we were at, and you had to walk over and press a button on the screen if you want to change it between the four channels or three channels that were available in the UK at the time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:18:01] <strong>Marc Benzakein:</strong> Yeah, the kids were the remotes back in those days.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:18:03] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> That&#8217;s right. We were literally, either that or a big stick that you could try and prod from the sofa. But he said to me, in the future we&#8217;ll have televisions that are just connected to computers somehow, and we&#8217;ll pick what we want to watch, and we won&#8217;t have to just watch what&#8217;s provided to us. We&#8217;ll be able to say, I&#8217;d like that now, and this now, and watch this film now. And he just predicted this future. And I remember sitting there thinking, that&#8217;s never going to happen.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Now that&#8217;s kind of like the starting gate for children growing up in this era. That&#8217;s like the basic provision. If you haven&#8217;t got, you know, the computer switched on and the TV and the music and the radio and all of that on demand, yeah, that&#8217;s not life, that&#8217;s just some sort of poor version of life. It&#8217;s so interesting how it&#8217;s transformed what we expect.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:18:55] <strong>Marc Benzakein:</strong> It&#8217;s funny because, yeah, you hear the kids being like, what do you mean you had to wait till Tuesday night at eight o&#8217;clock in order to watch? And if you didn&#8217;t see it, you&#8217;d miss it completely. What do you mean by that?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:19:04] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah. But even map that further back and, you know, you go back a whole generation or a generation and a half prior to you and I, even the notion that you could watch anything on a box in a house, what do you mean, the theater? Somebody brought the theater to your house. Well, yeah, kind of, in a little box. What, they shrunk the people down? How? It&#8217;s insane.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And yet, every single generation, this is now the assumption. The technology of the magnitude that we&#8217;ve got now, and the complexity that we&#8217;ve got now, and the miniaturisation that we&#8217;ve got now, this is now the benchmark for the beginning of the next generation. And it&#8217;s so interesting watching it happen.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I don&#8217;t know what you feel. I&#8217;m probably jumping ahead because I want to go back and talk about some of the things which have gone wrong. But what&#8217;s your, do you see yourself fully able to engage with all of the new things that are happening?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So we&#8217;re in the year, we&#8217;re at the very, very end of 2025 and, you know, we&#8217;ve got things like AI. We&#8217;ve had all sorts of interesting things happening. And I do wonder, for me at least anyway, I do wonder if there&#8217;s a point in time where it just races ahead at such a speed that somebody like me really does genuinely struggle to kind of keep up. I don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;ve got the same intuitions.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:20:13] <strong>Marc Benzakein:</strong> I actually think everybody does. I think that kids do too. I just think that kids are focused, for instance, on what&#8217;s important to them. And they&#8217;re at a different point in their life, so what&#8217;s important to them is not important to us. And so the technology that&#8217;s important to them like, say for instance, TikTok or whatever, is just an example, right? I only care about TikTok insofar as, what can it do to boost my brand? Or something like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Although it is interesting that kids are interested in boosting their brand on TikTok and they&#8217;re kids. But that&#8217;s, they may not realise that that&#8217;s what they&#8217;re doing, but that&#8217;s what they&#8217;re doing. But as far as technologies go, I think we just tend to use a technology, I think we&#8217;ve reached an age where, with the exception of maybe teleportation, we really feel like, if I can think this, we can do this. And so we just kind of like, now we&#8217;re just like, okay, I want to do this, what do I have to do in order to do it? Not, that&#8217;s impossible. You know, I think we&#8217;ve crossed over that hump of things being impossible.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:21:15] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I remember sitting in the car with my children. So this is going back several years now. I mean quite, maybe a decade or more. And I remember my child asking to play a certain song on the car radio. I said to him, we don&#8217;t have that. And he looked at me and he said, what do you mean we don&#8217;t have it? Because the setup that I had in the car still required compact disks. You know, the old CD player. You would put the CD in and so the arrangement of CDs that we had in the car was the available catalog of songs.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But he could not get over, unavailable. What? What do you mean? I mean, genuinely, it was a real moment where he had to think, the song is bound to that round thing. It&#8217;s not just coming out of the ether somehow. And that was quite a profound moment for me thinking, wow, your world is a lot bigger than mine, well, smaller and bigger at the same time, but your expectations are so different to what mine were when I grew up.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:22:10] <strong>Marc Benzakein:</strong> I think that, oh, I mean I hate to sound like, oh, kids today, but kids today, I mean they barely know what an iPod is. And how long ago was that? That wasn&#8217;t even that long ago. Because it&#8217;s like, what, you had to download your music onto this device? Yeah, because it could hold more music than a CD. For us, the iPod was groundbreaking, right? But I remember the first time I could put music on my phone and I was like, oh, this is awesome. I don&#8217;t even, once again, I don&#8217;t even know why we call them phones anymore. I hardly ever use it to talk to people.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:22:38] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, your pocket computer.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:22:40] <strong>Marc Benzakein:</strong> It&#8217;s way more powerful than anything I ever had in the past. I think because kids are in a constant state of having to adapt anyway, that&#8217;s just what growing up is, is a constant state of adaptation. I think that it&#8217;s easier for them. I do find that I&#8217;m a little bit slower or I might be just more selective. I might just be like, you know, this doesn&#8217;t interest me. And it may this be like I&#8217;m becoming more and more, get off my lawn as I get older. Or it may be that I&#8217;ve always, even back when we started the internet service provider, my feeling was that we have all this power at our hands and we are still children when it comes to us as a society and our ability to be responsible.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:23:25] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, that&#8217;s a curious insight isn&#8217;t it?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:23:28] <strong>Marc Benzakein:</strong> Technology has always been kind of a double-edged sword for me. It&#8217;s amazing what you can do, but going back to the coffee days, I remembered how the speed of business changed for me because we had fax machines. And so I would fax to the people in Burundi because we would, coffee would go to auction. I&#8217;d have to bid on it and, you know, get the lot and then have it shipped over here. And the next morning I would, you know, because of the time difference, I would send them a fax in my morning and then the next morning I&#8217;d have a fax from them.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And we&#8217;re talking about not even 10 years ago, everything had to be done by courier and things like that. And it would be days and days and days before you got information or you&#8217;d have to make a phone call. And so that was like the first part of, you could sign contracts in a fax machine. And then we got email, which became even more instantaneous. And as a result, going back to like when personal computers came into our homes, a big part of it was, hey, these things, well, you can do in two hours, what you used to be able to do it eight hours.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And I very quickly learned that nobody was working a two hour day once technology came into our homes. In fact, people were not only bringing their work home, but they were working 14 and 16 hour days. And my thought, I was probably 18 or 20 years old, and my thought even at that time was like, we are not responsible enough to have this kind of technology at our fingertips. And I still feel that way. And so I&#8217;ve always struggled with this like, we have technology but we do not have the ability to limit ourselves or to discipline ourselves to say, okay, but how much is actually enough here?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:25:06] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Do you know? That&#8217;s really curious. It&#8217;s not something I dwell on a lot, but when you say it, it makes perfect sense. It&#8217;s not like the amount of work that we were doing 50 years ago, the amount that needs to be done objectively is the same now than it was then. I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s the case. I think the amount of work always fills up the available time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And so this promise, which has been offered in multiple generations over hundreds of years, you know, you can go back to the industrial revolution or the agricultural revolution, just the idea that the technology will free up time. Clearly it does, but I think it&#8217;s true to say that other things occupy that time because there&#8217;s an efficiency gained over here. Well, that leaves you a little bit of time to do this extra other task over here. And because everybody&#8217;s bound up to the technology, everybody has this available time, which they then fill up. And so the cycle begins.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And in many ways, I feel exactly like you&#8217;ve just described. Instead of going from an eight hour day, the fact that we&#8217;ve got the technology in our homes and we can check the email during the middle of the night, and so on and so forth, I think it is entirely possible that the workday could be longer now than it ever has been. I mean not for everybody, and not all the time, but it certainly could be.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Curiously, last night I went to, there&#8217;s a history society that I attend locally and we had a magic lantern show. And I don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;ve come across a magic lantern show, but a magic lantern show is, it&#8217;s a wooden box with a whole bunch of candles in it. They put painted glass slides in, and some of the painted glass slides, if they manipulate them in a certain way, they can simulate movement, or arms moving around or.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:26:41] <strong>Marc Benzakein:</strong> Yeah, they&#8217;re really cool.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:26:42] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, I really was hit by a sense of, that was entertainment. And there was such pleasure and innovation in that. And it&#8217;s the same now, right? Along comes the internet and we get the same pleasure out of that. And along comes AI and the next generation will get the same amount of pleasure out of that. But it was also curious to see, and I&#8217;m just going to use the word slow, how slow that activity was.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">There was a lot of breathing room. There was a lot of space for you to inject your own thoughts. There was a lot of time waiting for the chap to pull out one slide and put the other one in. Whole minutes would go by and nothing would happen. But there was no expectation that, well, we just lost a couple of minutes there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So I think that&#8217;s kind of leading me onto an unexpected consequence of the internet is maybe that we&#8217;ve lost the capacity to think in that kind of slow manner, which I really hadn&#8217;t parsed it until last night when I saw what entertainment was 150 years ago. And it was so gentle and slow and enormously pleasurable. Once you&#8217;d suspended that there&#8217;s no CGI, there&#8217;s no Tom Cruise there, it&#8217;s just a person on a glass slide. But it was absolutely fascinating. It gave me a real window into the pace of life and what that might have been and how that has changed. And it will, I presume, never, that genie will never go back in the box.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:28:05] <strong>Marc Benzakein:</strong> Well, no. I mean it&#8217;s impossible for any of that. I mean I can bring it to modern day terms. When you watch or listen to a podcast, do you listen to it at regular speed or do you listen to it at 1.5 or 2?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:28:15] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, there you go. Yeah, most people I think.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:28:18] <strong>Marc Benzakein:</strong> Yeah. If I have a day where I am doing nothing, I even watch my movies now, I watch them at 1.5x or 2x. And it&#8217;s crazy because your brain adapts to it very quickly. But then what happens is, if I&#8217;ve gone through a whole day of like listening to podcasts or something like that, which I&#8217;ll have going on in the background and I have no interaction with people, when I&#8217;m done listening to them, it is dreadfully dreadful. I become impatient talking to people because they talk so slowly.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And then I wonder, am I speaking faster than I normally do now because I&#8217;ve been listening to this podcast. And I have to reset my brain. And the thing is, I kind of feel like, I have this theory on ADHD, which I definitely have. My theory on ADHD is, there&#8217;s this misconception that ADHD is something where you can&#8217;t keep your attention on any one thing, which we&#8217;re finding out that&#8217;s not true. You either hyperfocus or you&#8217;re not focused, in simple terms.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And I feel like what it boils down to is a ADHDers have to have 100% of their bandwidth taken up all the time. That&#8217;s what it boils down to. So if what I&#8217;m working on requires a hundred percent of my bandwidth, I can hyper focus on it and do nothing else. If I don&#8217;t then, I&#8217;ve got four screens on my computer. I used to have six, but I&#8217;ve got four. I&#8217;ve pared it down to four and I&#8217;ve got something going on on all those screens. If I&#8217;m doing something that&#8217;s kind of mundane and just, because I have to have that filled all the time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But I think that as a society, you talked about time, and it&#8217;s really kind of a rule of economics, right? You spend what you make. No matter what you&#8217;re making, you&#8217;re going to spend it all. That&#8217;s kind of like this echo. And it&#8217;s the same with time. Unless we actually discipline ourselves to say, look, mental health is just as important, so that means downtime, meditation, all these things are just as important no matter what society tells us. Those things are just as productive as putting out a widget or whatever you&#8217;re doing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And so I think that what has to happen at a societal level, in order for us to gain back some of this discipline, is we need to recognise that while, yes, we need to take up a hundred percent of our time, what are the important things that we need to do in order to take up that a hundred percent of the time? And the reality is, some of that is downtime. Some of that is sleep, some of that is eating, some of that is interacting with people or whatever it may be. And I think technology, because it is constantly the shining new object, takes us away from all of that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:30:45] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I think for me, the profundity of the internet, let&#8217;s just use that term, you know, whatever is bound up inside that term, is enormous. You know, it&#8217;s probably the most, up till now, maybe AI will come to surpass that, but up until this point, I think the internet is probably the most profound technological invention of all time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:31:04] <strong>Marc Benzakein:</strong> I call it the eighth wonder of the world.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:31:05] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, right. So the capacity for all that it brings. The fact that you can communicate with people, as I am with you. You are literally on the other side of the planet, and I&#8217;m talking to you as if you are stood next to me. The mind boggles. But also access to news, access to publishing your own information, seeking out communities that are just like you and the myriad way, oh, commerce. Let&#8217;s not forget that. That whole thing. The capacity for that, remarkable. All of it, remarkable and amazing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But I think fair to say that there&#8217;s always swings and roundabouts. All of those wonderful things that we&#8217;ve just described, there&#8217;s probably some missteps along the way. And that was one of the things that I wanted to ask you. Are there any bits during the internet&#8217;s evolution to where we are now, where you think, do you know what, maybe we shouldn&#8217;t have done that? Maybe that wasn&#8217;t a good idea. Have you got any sort of thoughts on that, where you look back and you think the internet probably could have avoided that aspect?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:31:58] <strong>Marc Benzakein:</strong> I could think of a lot of little things. I think it&#8217;s one of those million little things, right? So going back to those days, it was really quite interesting. You know, I didn&#8217;t know what DNS was. I didn&#8217;t know, I barely knew what an ethernet cable was. We had this box sitting there that was a Cisco router. I had no idea what a router was. I mean, all this stuff because it was all pre-configured.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And I think the thing that blew me away back then, and this doesn&#8217;t really answer your question, but the thing that blew me away was, here we had people that we would get on phone calls with each other to work through problems, because this guy understood DNS, this guy understood routing. The two didn&#8217;t both understand both. It was really insane that it worked at all.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And I remembered sitting there going, this is a worldwide thing and it&#8217;s going to become a worldwide phenomenon. I mean it&#8217;s already working on a worldwide level. And it&#8217;s a bunch of people who don&#8217;t know each other, who probably if they were in the same room as each other, wouldn&#8217;t like each other.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I mean there were guys that I dealt with, there was this one guy, Frank, every time there was a DNS problem, I had to call him. I would dread calling him because his first question would be, what did you do now? It wouldn&#8217;t be like, ironically, it would be like, accusatorily, right? If that&#8217;s a word. I hated calling this guy, right? But somehow or another, we knew that we were working on something bigger than all of us, and so we tolerated each other at these various levels.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:33:22] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Can I just inject a couple of my things? Yeah. Is that all right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:33:25] <strong>Marc Benzakein:</strong> Yeah, sure. Go ahead. Absolutely.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:33:26] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Because where I was going with this was, at the outset of the internet, I think there was a widespread assumption, and hope, that open things would win. And for a period of time, I think they did. So an example would be, I don&#8217;t know, things like RSS and things like that. Just widespread, open standards, everybody understood. And I think a lot of that has been upended, you know, the social networks came along, and made these utterly beguiling interfaces, which consumed lots of time. I&#8217;ll get onto that as my second point in a moment.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But the standards sort of got, not thrown out the window because they&#8217;re still there and, you know, you can still build on top of them, but they got usurped. More utilitarian things that were more easily understood because you were in this silo worked. And so closed things started to dominate.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I have this notion, I have this hope that we are maybe seeing a little bit of a pushback against that. Obviously you and I are in the WordPress space where those kind of things are incredibly important. So that would be one of my things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And the other thing, which I think I can say for me, and I think it maps across many people, but I can&#8217;t be certain about that, is the time that can be consumed on the internet, which with the benefit of hindsight could have been better spent doing other things. I think it&#8217;s easy to become, not addicted, but for me to really get lost in the internet.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:34:51] <strong>Marc Benzakein:</strong> What you&#8217;re talking about is a natural evolution though, because there&#8217;s no real way to regulate that. That&#8217;s like, you can&#8217;t. How do you regulate that? And I mean that was of course the appeal of all of it back then. Just like blockchain, that&#8217;s the appeal of blockchain is like, how do you regulate it? We knew that eventually people would figure out how to regulate it, even then. Because I remember us having these congressional hearings and things about monopolies and things like that, and all these things that had to do with the internet.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And it was very clear that the people asking questions had no clue what they were asking, because they had no clue what the internet really was other than they used email. They had no clue how far reaching. And so they would try to put standards in that just didn&#8217;t make sense. But we all knew that eventually people would be in those positions that actually grew up with the internet, understood it. And, of course, you can be cynical or whatever, the government is going to figure out a way to regulate everything so they can get their piece of the pie somehow.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And we saw a little bit of that with the regulation of, say, for instance, IP addresses, which back then were a lot harder to come by because there was a big concern about IP address shortages because we were on IP v4 and there was no such thing as what they call network address translation. So like every single website, if you had a web server, every website had its own IP address. If you were at home, you had a static IP address that was assigned to you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And I remember filling out the forms, which was like a 20 page application, it may not have been 20, but it sure felt like it, application for more IP addresses, more blocks of IP addresses because after, so we had ISDN, which was kind of a big flop, and then we went to the modem standard which was dial up, which was actually, became very highly profitable for us. But then we got into DSL, which was the digital subscriber line concept. And it was cable or DSL. Those were the two high speed or broadband options.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And even when DSL just came out, we had to assign people IP addresses. So it&#8217;d be like, here&#8217;s your DSL modem. We would go out, we would install it in their home. Here&#8217;s your IP address. And with your DSL subscription comes a dial up subscription, so that when you&#8217;re traveling, you can access the internet and you can dial in from your hotel room or whatever.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And I&#8217;d say that the only thing we could have changed maybe was the messaging. Because everything else, and it&#8217;s still a matter of, look, the internet represents freedom. It represents the freedom to do what you want, when you want, how you want. And hopefully you&#8217;re not doing anything illegal. But of course there was a lot of that going on as well. But I don&#8217;t, the whole point of the wild westiness of it is that it was the wild west and you could do whatever you wanted. And people loved that freedom.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And so I don&#8217;t know, you know, my big frustration is I&#8217;d have people call me at two in the morning on my home phone line, because their internet was down and they were going to go on a raid on World of Warcraft or something like that, and they were the raid leader and, by the way, true story. I&#8217;m not making this up. And somehow this guy got my phone number and death threat. I mean, I got a death threat because he couldn&#8217;t go on this raid.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I mean the stories during that time are crazy. And I think it really is just a matter of, I think as always, with everything, messaging is everything, but people are still going to do what they&#8217;re going to do, whether it&#8217;s legal or not. So I&#8217;m not sure that there were any mistakes that were made because it was an evolution. It wasn&#8217;t, there was nothing intentional.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:38:21] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I mean, it&#8217;s a technology which is just flooded with all of humanity. So the idea that it was going to be unicorns and rainbows all the way down was misguided because it was just waiting for humans to come in with all their interesting, fun, curious, illegal, time wasting stuff, and pour all of that into the internet. I am so fascinated about where all of that will go.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The bit that makes me most interested is that I had quite a significant portion of my life when the internet didn&#8217;t exist. And so I had a childhood which was completely inoculated from the internet. And so I have that perspective and so, okay, here&#8217;s the bit where I sound like the curmudgeonly old man and, you know, the youths of today and all of that. And that&#8217;s not really the intention.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But my children&#8217;s generation have never had that. And it&#8217;ll be curious to see how they grow up in a world in which always on was always a thing. From very early age, they had access to technology. The endeavor to acquire information is now more or less trivial. You just log onto something and all of that is available to you. We&#8217;ve got AI coming at a breathtaking pace. It would just be so interesting to see how this goes. And also very interesting to see how my generation cope with its onset because, sure as anything, it doesn&#8217;t look like it&#8217;s going to slow down. And so we are going to have to try and keep up, and hopefully we will, without becoming too curmudgeonly.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:39:52] <strong>Marc Benzakein:</strong> My son is going to be 21 this next year, and he hates everything that has to do with technology, which is really fascinating. He&#8217;s in college and outside of college, he works at a Barnes and Noble. He has his girlfriend and they go hiking every single day. He takes a hammock with him and puts it between two trees and lays in his hammock and reads books. And this is not something that I trained him to do.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This was, I mean I appreciate that about him other than he&#8217;s, you know, not nearby so the only way I can contact him is texting and phone calls, but he prefers phone calls to texting. He prefers email to texting because emails, you check your email when you want to, you don&#8217;t get interrupted by the text message notification. And he&#8217;s very, very bright and his whole circle of friends are very, very bright and they&#8217;re not into technology either.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:40:44] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I was just going to say, I&#8217;ve noticed that that seemingly would be a bit of a trend over this side of the pond as well. There does seem to be a groundswell of turning things off or minimalising, tech minimalism, let&#8217;s call it that. So things like vinyl is coming back as a format for consuming music. The phone&#8217;s getting simplified so that there&#8217;s less on there. Apps being deleted because the assumption that it&#8217;s good to have more things coming in and that more connection is a good thing has been sort of pushed to the back.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Actually many of my children&#8217;s generations seem to have now grown weary of that, and they realise that actually that&#8217;s not in their best interest to be engaged all the time, every day. And so that will be a curious pushback. It almost seems like a sort of Hollywood plot that, doesn&#8217;t it?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:41:24] <strong>Marc Benzakein:</strong> Maybe it&#8217;s just that it&#8217;s so taken for granted now just like a car is or anything else, that they don&#8217;t think of it as anything other than what it is.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:41:36] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So we were sort of caught up, our generation were caught up with this constant cycle of innovation, newness, the shiny thing. And actually for a whole sort of 20 years, there was no let up in that, was there? The internet came along, home computers came along. They got smaller. They became laptops, which you could then take everywhere. Internet and mobile phone networks got switched on. Then the advent of a computer, which you could hold in your hand came along. Social networks came along. All of that completely switched on, connectivity came along. There was a constant churn of evolution and next new thing. Maybe you&#8217;re right.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:42:09] <strong>Marc Benzakein:</strong> It&#8217;s like you&#8217;re talking about the television set. In our house growing up, the TV set was something that was kind of always on, and so when we turned it off, it wasn&#8217;t a big deal or we didn&#8217;t feel the need to watch it constantly. We didn&#8217;t need to, I mean let&#8217;s say that you live in a place where, out your front window, you have like this beautiful view. But every single day you see that same exact view, to the point where you can acknowledge that it&#8217;s a beautiful view, but you&#8217;re not as likely to acknowledge it every single day.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I think that that&#8217;s the way that technology has become. And of course, I welcome that because I want our kids to have some of the same experiences that we Gen Xers had, you know, where we had to drink water out of the garden hose because our parents told us to go out the door and not come back until after dark. And I don&#8217;t want to go that extreme but the point is that they have these things at their disposal, and they just know that they&#8217;re there, so they don&#8217;t feel like they have to constantly pursue it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And I mean, I remember last year when my son was out visiting, I took him to this place called, it&#8217;s called the Medicine Buddha, which is about, it&#8217;s out by Santa Cruz. And it&#8217;s about, I don&#8217;t know how many acres it is, but it&#8217;s redwoods. It&#8217;s nothing but redwoods. And we were out there for about two hours hiking. He&#8217;s like, Dad, why didn&#8217;t you bring me here two days ago? We could have spent the whole weekend here. I mean, it was like, to give you an idea of what it&#8217;s like, it is so quiet there because the trees are so tall that the birds don&#8217;t even come down,</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So I think that the pendulum is swinging in the right direction. I do think that youth today has a lot of the right ideas. You know, hopefully our generations haven&#8217;t screwed it up too much for them, that they get to appreciate all of that. But I&#8217;m not as worried about it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But I will also say that with our kids, we were not super restrictive with the screen time with our kids. And it was always funny, you know, we kind of started it out as an experiment and what we found was that they&#8217;d play on their tablets, or on their computers for an hour or whatever, and then they&#8217;d be like, let&#8217;s go play basketball, or let&#8217;s go play football, or whatever.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And they would just put the things down and they&#8217;d go out and explore on their own. And my kids, it&#8217;s crazy how sometimes hard it is to get a hold of them because, oh, I left my phone at home, sorry Dad. And so I see it going in a good direction. But that&#8217;s the funny thing is like we went from this period, and I know this was supposed to be about the whole evolution of the internet and we kind of, as you and I do, went down.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:44:36] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> We segued.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:44:37] <strong>Marc Benzakein:</strong> We segued. But there was a time as crazy as it is, that when you wanted to get on the internet, it had to be intentional. You had to deliberately want to get on the internet. So if you went traveling and you had dial up access, you would have to hook up your laptop computer to a modem, unplug the phone line from the hotel phone line, plug it into your computer, and then hope that the dialing worked, right? That you could get an outside line and that it would take you to the internet and that you&#8217;d be able to have a connection. And then it would, nine times out of ten, it would be a long distance number that you had to call because you were in a hotel somewhere else. And now if we go into a hotel that doesn&#8217;t have WiFi, we freak out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:45:21] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah. It&#8217;s like, what&#8217;s going on? This isn&#8217;t normal.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:45:25] <strong>Marc Benzakein:</strong> Welcome to the 20th century, I mean.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:45:27] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I feel like we&#8217;ve grown up in such an interesting time. If you look back and if, like me, you&#8217;re into things like archaeology. Archaeology really does show that for most of humanity, especially if you go pre-history, thousands of years go by and the innovation is very small. You know, there might be one or two little things which built up this growing corpus of things which humanity use.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But it might be that somebody invents a slightly new way of cutting the wheat down, or it might be a new way of building a wall or what have you. And that&#8217;s the pattern of history. Slow, fairly slow, pedestrian until you get to much more recent times, couple of hundred years ago, and things start to pick up speed. And now we&#8217;re at a point where, goodness knows what is going to happen even in the next six months, especially in the realm of AI. We really are at a rate of change, which is very difficult to keep track of.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But it&#8217;s exciting. It&#8217;s a time when everything is up for grabs. It really is exciting. And hopefully we are going to maintain that enthusiasm, maintain that interest. Make sure that, you know, we&#8217;re all safe and well fed and everybody&#8217;s looked after. Let&#8217;s hope those kind of things happen. But what a breathtaking time to live in. What an interesting time we are in.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:46:43] <strong>Marc Benzakein:</strong> Well, I mean the idea of the internet, and I remember saying this when we started our internet service provider. I said, look, we have an opportunity to level the playing field for businesses. It doesn&#8217;t matter if you&#8217;re small or if you&#8217;re big. On the web, it all looks the same. And I think that that&#8217;s always been kind of one of the drivers for a lot of us, especially in the open source world, is this idea of leveling the playing field between kind of the haves and the have nots, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So we have the same access to knowledge that people with means might have. We have the same access to products. We have all the same accesses. So in many ways, from a consumption level, I&#8217;m talking about consuming knowledge as well as products, but from a consumption level, we have a level playing field. From the other side of things, it&#8217;s not as level as it used to be.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">A Walmart or an Amazon obviously is going to show up in every search for everything, as opposed to back in the day, all you really had to do was just put in a few keywords and somehow or another you&#8217;d show up on Yahoo or AltaVista or Ask Jeeves or whatever it was at the time, you know, before Google came along. And then Google came along and the same thing was still true for a while, where you could like do just minimal amounts of SEO and get attention to your website and get business.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So the idea and I think the mission of the internet kind of should always be to keep the playing field level. I just don&#8217;t know that that&#8217;s necessarily possible because obviously the people who have the power and the money are going to be able to tilt things in their direction. But having said that, it is still the greatest opportunity for us to level the playing field of anything out there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:48:33] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Oh, that&#8217;s such a good way, I think we should probably end it on that, because that&#8217;s such a nice and optimistic note actually, in many ways.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We began this conversation not really knowing where we were going to end up, and that has proved to be the case. We really did go in all sorts of different directions there, but absolutely fascinating.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You know, we revealed a lot about our own past and our sort of heuristics and intuitions about how it&#8217;s going to be for our children&#8217;s generation, and what we&#8217;ve enjoyed and what we think might be of concern in the future. That was absolutely fascinating. Marc Benzakein, where can we find you online, 24/7?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:49:05] <strong>Marc Benzakein:</strong> You can find me online, not 24/7, I actually do try to take some time off of technology. But I am with MainWP. I do their marketing and partnerships, for MainWP, which is a fantastic WordPress management dashboard. That&#8217;s my plug. And you can also find me on LinkedIn. You can find me on Twitter, Marc Benzakein. I&#8217;m pretty sure I&#8217;m the only Marc Benzakein out there. I&#8217;m marcbenzak Twitter and Bluesky and those things. And then you can find me on Facebook and I&#8217;m just kind of generally all over the place.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:49:38] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I will endeavor to find those links and I&#8217;ll drop them into the show notes. So if you go to wptavern.com and search for, well, I suspect if you just search for Marc&#8217;s first name, which is Marc with a C, M-A-R-C. If you search for that, you&#8217;ll probably come up in the search. But Benzakein, B-E-N-Z, as we say in the UK, A-K-E-I-N. Marc Benzakein, thank you so much for a really interesting chat today. I appreciate that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:50:03] <strong>Marc Benzakein:</strong> Thanks for having me, Nathan. Appreciate it.</p>\n</div></details>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">On the podcast today we have <a href=\"https://x.com/MarcBenzak\">Marc Benzakein</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Marc’s story is one that spans nearly the entire history of the Internet. With roots reaching back to the mid-90s. He explores how curiosity and an enthusiastic embrace of technology led him from running a small coffee importing business, accepting payments by snail mail, fax, then email, to helping wire up schools for Internet access when modems worked incredibly slowly, and only a handful of people were online.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This episode is a departure from our usual topics about plugins, themes, and WordPress community news. Instead, we’re more in the business of reminiscing this week. Taking a reflective walk down memory lane to look at how the Internet has evolved, not just as a technology, but as an integral part of society that’s transformed how we work, communicate, and think.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Marc shares some personal stories, building bulletin board systems, forging long-distance friendships over phone lines and slow modems, and watching as Internet access shifted from an intentional, difficult-to-navigate hobby for the few, to an invisible, always-on utility that we all take for granted.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We talk about how technology has affected not only business and productivity (often creating more work instead of less), but also our attention spans, expectations around entertainment, the pace of life, and even the social fabric that binds us together. We discuss the cultural shifts that came with always-connected living, digital minimalism, and the recent push by younger generations to step back from tech and reclaim a bit of analog life.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We chat about the early optimism of open standards, the rise of walled gardens and social networks, and the challenges of regulation, commercialisation, and the balancing act between freedom and responsibility online.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Marc’s perspective is shaped by decades of direct technical experience, as well as thoughtful observations of how technology is reshaping the world around us, sometimes for the better, sometimes in ways we need to pause and question.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Whether you’re nostalgic for the old days of dial-up, intrigued by how the Internet’s culture has shifted, or curious about how these transformations might play out as new technologies like AI reshape society, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Useful links</h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://mainwp.com\">MainWP</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AOL\">AOL</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prodigy_(online_service)\"> Prodigy</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopher_(protocol)\"> Gopher</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://wptavern.com/serverpress-is-shutting-down\">ServerPress Is Shutting Down</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LANtastic\">LANtastic</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novell\">Novell</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_board_system\">BBS (Bulletin board system)</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWIV\">WWIV</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio\">Ham radio</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://x.com/MarcBenzak\">Marc on X</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/marc-benzakein/\">Marc on LinkedIn</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://bsky.app/profile/marcbenzak.bsky.social\">Marc on Bluesky</a></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 21 Jan 2026 15:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Nathan Wrigley\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:21;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:49:\"WordPress.org blog: Be Part of WordCamp Asia 2026\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=19738\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:54:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2026/01/wordcamp-asia-2026/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:16192:\"<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">WordCamp Asia is back in 2026, this time in Mumbai, India, and it’s building on a year that showed just how ambitious and connected the WordPress community has become. Now is the time to get involved. Get your ticket, explore sponsorship opportunities, and help spread the word.</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-buttons is-content-justification-center is-layout-flex wp-container-core-buttons-is-layout-c124d1c4 wp-block-buttons-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-button\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link has-background wp-element-button\" href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2026/event-pass/\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Get Your Event Pass</a></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-button\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link has-background wp-element-button\" href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2026/call-for-sponsors/\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Become a Sponsor</a></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-button\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link has-background wp-element-button\" href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2026/\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\">About WordCamp Asia</a></div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In 2025, more than 1,400 attendees from 71 countries gathered in person, with nearly 15,000 more joining online for <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2025/02/shaping-tomorrow-at-wordcamp-asia-2025/\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\">WordCamp Asia 2025</a>. With notable guests like WordPress <span style=\"margin: 0px; padding: 0px;\">Co-founder <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/matt/\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Matt Mullenweg</a> and Gutenberg Lead Architect <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/matveb/\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Matías Ventura</a>, and</span> a diverse lineup of speakers and panelists from across the ecosystem, WordCamp Asia 2025 brought together a community actively shaping the future of the open web.</p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It&#8217;s the people. It&#8217;s the friendships and the stories.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em>Matt Mullenweg, WordPress Cofounder</em></p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">WordCamp isn’t just about sessions and schedules. It’s about connection. It’s about learning directly from people who are building, scaling, and sustaining WordPress in the real world. It’s about sharing ideas, debating the future of the open web, and leaving with renewed energy for the work ahead. And in 2026, that spirit returns stronger than ever.</p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped has-border-color has-darker-grey-background-color has-background wp-block-gallery-1 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\" style=\"border-color: #1c2024; border-width: 20px; border-radius: 2px;\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large has-custom-border wp-lightbox-container\"><img alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18537\" height=\"683\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/20250220-DSC_1914.jpg?resize=1024%2C683&#038;ssl=1\" style=\"border-radius: 2px;\" width=\"1024\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			<svg fill=\"none\" height=\"12\" viewBox=\"0 0 12 12\" width=\"12\" xmlns=\"http://www.w3.org/2000/svg\">\n				<path d=\"M2 0a2 2 0 0 0-2 2v2h1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 1 .5-.5h2V0H2Zm2 10.5H2a.5.5 0 0 1-.5-.5V8H0v2a2 2 0 0 0 2 2h2v-1.5ZM8 12v-1.5h2a.5.5 0 0 0 .5-.5V8H12v2a2 2 0 0 1-2 2H8Zm2-12a2 2 0 0 1 2 2v2h-1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 0-.5-.5H8V0h2Z\" fill=\"#fff\">\n			</svg>\n		</button></figure>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large has-custom-border wp-lightbox-container\"><img alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18527\" height=\"683\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/20250220-DSC_1989.jpg?resize=1024%2C683&#038;ssl=1\" style=\"border-radius: 2px;\" width=\"1024\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			<svg fill=\"none\" height=\"12\" viewBox=\"0 0 12 12\" width=\"12\" xmlns=\"http://www.w3.org/2000/svg\">\n				<path d=\"M2 0a2 2 0 0 0-2 2v2h1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 1 .5-.5h2V0H2Zm2 10.5H2a.5.5 0 0 1-.5-.5V8H0v2a2 2 0 0 0 2 2h2v-1.5ZM8 12v-1.5h2a.5.5 0 0 0 .5-.5V8H12v2a2 2 0 0 1-2 2H8Zm2-12a2 2 0 0 1 2 2v2h-1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 0-.5-.5H8V0h2Z\" fill=\"#fff\">\n			</svg>\n		</button></figure>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large has-custom-border wp-lightbox-container\"><img alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18530\" height=\"683\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/20250220-DSC_1920.jpg?resize=1024%2C683&#038;ssl=1\" style=\"border-radius: 2px;\" width=\"1024\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			<svg fill=\"none\" height=\"12\" viewBox=\"0 0 12 12\" width=\"12\" xmlns=\"http://www.w3.org/2000/svg\">\n				<path d=\"M2 0a2 2 0 0 0-2 2v2h1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 1 .5-.5h2V0H2Zm2 10.5H2a.5.5 0 0 1-.5-.5V8H0v2a2 2 0 0 0 2 2h2v-1.5ZM8 12v-1.5h2a.5.5 0 0 0 .5-.5V8H12v2a2 2 0 0 1-2 2H8Zm2-12a2 2 0 0 1 2 2v2h-1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 0-.5-.5H8V0h2Z\" fill=\"#fff\">\n			</svg>\n		</button></figure>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large wp-lightbox-container\"><img alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18616\" height=\"683\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/WORDCAMPASIA2025_PH_PICC_DAY01_CONTRIBUTORSDAY_JOHN_CARLO_PATTAGUAN-474.jpg?resize=1024%2C683&#038;ssl=1\" width=\"1024\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			<svg fill=\"none\" height=\"12\" viewBox=\"0 0 12 12\" width=\"12\" xmlns=\"http://www.w3.org/2000/svg\">\n				<path d=\"M2 0a2 2 0 0 0-2 2v2h1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 1 .5-.5h2V0H2Zm2 10.5H2a.5.5 0 0 1-.5-.5V8H0v2a2 2 0 0 0 2 2h2v-1.5ZM8 12v-1.5h2a.5.5 0 0 0 .5-.5V8H12v2a2 2 0 0 1-2 2H8Zm2-12a2 2 0 0 1 2 2v2h-1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 0-.5-.5H8V0h2Z\" fill=\"#fff\">\n			</svg>\n		</button></figure>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large wp-lightbox-container\"><img alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18615\" height=\"684\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/T2S_6305.jpg?resize=1024%2C684&#038;ssl=1\" width=\"1024\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			<svg fill=\"none\" height=\"12\" viewBox=\"0 0 12 12\" width=\"12\" xmlns=\"http://www.w3.org/2000/svg\">\n				<path d=\"M2 0a2 2 0 0 0-2 2v2h1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 1 .5-.5h2V0H2Zm2 10.5H2a.5.5 0 0 1-.5-.5V8H0v2a2 2 0 0 0 2 2h2v-1.5ZM8 12v-1.5h2a.5.5 0 0 0 .5-.5V8H12v2a2 2 0 0 1-2 2H8Zm2-12a2 2 0 0 1 2 2v2h-1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 0-.5-.5H8V0h2Z\" fill=\"#fff\">\n			</svg>\n		</button></figure>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large has-custom-border wp-lightbox-container\"><img alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18536\" height=\"683\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/20250220-DSC07465.jpg?resize=1024%2C683&#038;ssl=1\" style=\"border-radius: 2px;\" width=\"1024\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			<svg fill=\"none\" height=\"12\" viewBox=\"0 0 12 12\" width=\"12\" xmlns=\"http://www.w3.org/2000/svg\">\n				<path d=\"M2 0a2 2 0 0 0-2 2v2h1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 1 .5-.5h2V0H2Zm2 10.5H2a.5.5 0 0 1-.5-.5V8H0v2a2 2 0 0 0 2 2h2v-1.5ZM8 12v-1.5h2a.5.5 0 0 0 .5-.5V8H12v2a2 2 0 0 1-2 2H8Zm2-12a2 2 0 0 1 2 2v2h-1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 0-.5-.5H8V0h2Z\" fill=\"#fff\">\n			</svg>\n		</button></figure>\n</figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Tickets for WordCamp Asia 2026 are on sale now, and this is the moment to secure your spot. WordCamps are intentionally priced to remain accessible, and early ticket sales help organizers plan an inclusive, high-quality experience for everyone.</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-cover wp-elements-0b95616698be07100358c612d6a7c795\"><img alt=\"\" class=\"wp-block-cover__image-background wp-image-19746 size-large\" height=\"455\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2026/01/wca-hero-purple.webp?resize=1024%2C455&#038;ssl=1\" width=\"1024\" /><span class=\"wp-block-cover__background has-background-dim-0 has-background-dim\"></span><div class=\"wp-block-cover__inner-container is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-cover-is-layout-063a8677 wp-block-cover-is-layout-constrained\">\n<p class=\"has-text-align-center has-luminous-vivid-amber-color has-text-color has-link-color has-eb-garamond-font-family has-huge-font-size wp-elements-fc6f7f5274402af690db6c3dfeb817bc wp-block-paragraph\" style=\"margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0;\"><strong>Join 3,000+ Web Professionals</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-center wp-block-paragraph\">April 9 – 11, 2026 | Jio World Convention Centre, Mumbai, India</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-buttons is-content-justification-center is-layout-flex wp-container-core-buttons-is-layout-a89b3969 wp-block-buttons-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-button\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link has-vivid-red-background-color has-background has-eb-garamond-font-family has-large-font-size has-custom-font-size wp-element-button\" href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2026/event-pass/\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\"><strong>Get Your Event Pass</strong></a></div>\n</div>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">WordCamp Asia is also made possible by the organizations that step up to support it. Sponsorship plays a critical role in keeping the event accessible, supporting contributors and volunteers, and ensuring the experience reflects the values of the WordPress project. For sponsors, WordCamp Asia 2026 offers a rare opportunity to connect with a highly engaged, global audience in a setting built on trust, collaboration, and shared purpose.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Sponsorship packages are designed to support a wide range of organizations, from local companies to global businesses building products and services on WordPress. Beyond visibility, sponsors become part of the story—helping sustain the ecosystem and invest directly in the community that makes WordPress possible.</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-background is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-b8b9d790 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group alignfull is-content-justification-center is-nowrap is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-23441af8 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed aligncenter is-type-rich is-provider-canva wp-block-embed-canva\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div></figure>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-center has-white-color has-text-color has-link-color wp-elements-ba159f72435edac28651a9149c455a8c wp-block-paragraph\">If your company is interested in becoming a sponsor or you would like to know more, please reach out.</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-buttons is-content-justification-center is-layout-flex wp-container-core-buttons-is-layout-a89b3969 wp-block-buttons-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-button\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link has-vivid-red-background-color has-background has-eb-garamond-font-family has-large-font-size has-custom-font-size wp-element-button\" href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2026/call-for-sponsors/\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\"><strong>Become a Sponsor</strong></a></div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">At every level, WordCamp Asia is powered by people. Organizers, volunteers, speakers, sponsors, and attendees all contribute to an experience that reflects WordPress’s shared values of openness and collaboration. It’s a place where new voices are welcomed, long-time contributors reconnect, and ideas move from conversation to action.</p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped has-border-color has-darker-grey-background-color has-background wp-block-gallery-2 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\" style=\"border-color: #1c2024; border-width: 20px; border-radius: 2px;\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large has-custom-border wp-lightbox-container\"><img alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18533\" height=\"683\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/20250220-DSC_1853.jpg?resize=1024%2C683&#038;ssl=1\" style=\"border-radius: 2px;\" width=\"1024\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			<svg fill=\"none\" height=\"12\" viewBox=\"0 0 12 12\" width=\"12\" xmlns=\"http://www.w3.org/2000/svg\">\n				<path d=\"M2 0a2 2 0 0 0-2 2v2h1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 1 .5-.5h2V0H2Zm2 10.5H2a.5.5 0 0 1-.5-.5V8H0v2a2 2 0 0 0 2 2h2v-1.5ZM8 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class=\"wp-image-18523\" height=\"683\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/20250220-DSC_1800.jpg?resize=1024%2C683&#038;ssl=1\" style=\"border-radius: 2px;\" width=\"1024\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			<svg fill=\"none\" height=\"12\" viewBox=\"0 0 12 12\" width=\"12\" xmlns=\"http://www.w3.org/2000/svg\">\n				<path d=\"M2 0a2 2 0 0 0-2 2v2h1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 1 .5-.5h2V0H2Zm2 10.5H2a.5.5 0 0 1-.5-.5V8H0v2a2 2 0 0 0 2 2h2v-1.5ZM8 12v-1.5h2a.5.5 0 0 0 .5-.5V8H12v2a2 2 0 0 1-2 2H8Zm2-12a2 2 0 0 1 2 2v2h-1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 0-.5-.5H8V0h2Z\" fill=\"#fff\">\n			</svg>\n		</button></figure>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large has-custom-border wp-lightbox-container\"><img alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18545\" height=\"683\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/20250221-250221_12-35-12_N7A00461_NExT.jpg?resize=1024%2C683&#038;ssl=1\" style=\"border-radius: 2px;\" width=\"1024\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			<svg fill=\"none\" height=\"12\" viewBox=\"0 0 12 12\" width=\"12\" xmlns=\"http://www.w3.org/2000/svg\">\n				<path d=\"M2 0a2 2 0 0 0-2 2v2h1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 1 .5-.5h2V0H2Zm2 10.5H2a.5.5 0 0 1-.5-.5V8H0v2a2 2 0 0 0 2 2h2v-1.5ZM8 12v-1.5h2a.5.5 0 0 0 .5-.5V8H12v2a2 2 0 0 1-2 2H8Zm2-12a2 2 0 0 1 2 2v2h-1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 0-.5-.5H8V0h2Z\" fill=\"#fff\">\n			</svg>\n		</button></figure>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large has-custom-border wp-lightbox-container\"><img alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18543\" height=\"683\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/20250221-DSC_2549.jpg?resize=1024%2C683&#038;ssl=1\" style=\"border-radius: 2px;\" width=\"1024\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			<svg fill=\"none\" height=\"12\" viewBox=\"0 0 12 12\" width=\"12\" xmlns=\"http://www.w3.org/2000/svg\">\n				<path d=\"M2 0a2 2 0 0 0-2 2v2h1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 1 .5-.5h2V0H2Zm2 10.5H2a.5.5 0 0 1-.5-.5V8H0v2a2 2 0 0 0 2 2h2v-1.5ZM8 12v-1.5h2a.5.5 0 0 0 .5-.5V8H12v2a2 2 0 0 1-2 2H8Zm2-12a2 2 0 0 1 2 2v2h-1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 0-.5-.5H8V0h2Z\" fill=\"#fff\">\n			</svg>\n		</button></figure>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large has-custom-border wp-lightbox-container\"><img alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18546\" height=\"684\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/20250221-IMG_3709.jpg?resize=1024%2C684&#038;ssl=1\" style=\"border-radius: 2px;\" width=\"1024\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			<svg fill=\"none\" height=\"12\" viewBox=\"0 0 12 12\" width=\"12\" xmlns=\"http://www.w3.org/2000/svg\">\n				<path d=\"M2 0a2 2 0 0 0-2 2v2h1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 1 .5-.5h2V0H2Zm2 10.5H2a.5.5 0 0 1-.5-.5V8H0v2a2 2 0 0 0 2 2h2v-1.5ZM8 12v-1.5h2a.5.5 0 0 0 .5-.5V8H12v2a2 2 0 0 1-2 2H8Zm2-12a2 2 0 0 1 2 2v2h-1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 0-.5-.5H8V0h2Z\" fill=\"#fff\">\n			</svg>\n		</button></figure>\n</figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">WordCamp Asia 2026 is more than an event—it’s a moment to come together, reflect on where we are, and help shape what comes next. Whether you’re attending for the first time, returning for another year, or supporting the event as a sponsor, your involvement helps strengthen the WordPress ecosystem and the global community behind it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We’ll see you in Mumbai.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 21 Jan 2026 12:07:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:17:\"Nicholas Garofalo\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:22;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:49:\"Open Channels FM: Open Channels FM v7.0 Changelog\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:33:\"https://openchannels.fm/?p=114485\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:56:\"https://openchannels.fm/open-channels-fm-v7-0-changelog/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:141:\"Our v.7.0 changelog highlights Open Channels FM structure, including new channels, a podcast revival, updated features, and plugin additions.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 21 Jan 2026 09:39:42 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:23;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:25:\"Matt: Cancer Founder Mode\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23:\"https://ma.tt/?p=151128\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:42:\"https://ma.tt/2026/01/cancer-founder-mode/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:1593:\"<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Sid Sijbrandi, a friend and a former CEO of <a href=\"https://about.gitlab.com/\" target=\"_blank\">Gitlab</a>, has <a href=\"https://x.com/sytses/status/2013441820630643136\">started to share some of the story</a> of his journey with cancer.</p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Manager mode assumes that existing systems will surface the best options. When I was first diagnosed with cancer in 2022, I delegated the crucial analyses and decisions about my care to others. In late 2024, when my cancer reappeared and my doctors told me I had exhausted the standard of care and there were no trials for my situation, I realized that assumption might, quite literally, kill me. Founder Mode was my only option.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Founder Mode meant going deep on every diagnostic and treatment option. It meant assembling a team of physicians and scientists to work from first principles to understand what was possible beyond standard protocols. Together, we paved new roads to access the very cutting edge of science and technology. Today, thanks to the efforts of many people around the world and the support of my wife Karen, I currently have no evidence of disease.</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Sid was already very inspiring before this journey, and this is especially impressive. <a href=\"https://centuryofbio.com/p/sid\">Elliot Hershberg has the full story and analysis</a>, including some predictions for the future of cancer treatment.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 21 Jan 2026 06:14:30 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4:\"Matt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:24;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:63:\"WordPress.org blog: A New Home for WordPress Education Programs\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=19636\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:73:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2026/01/wordpress-education-programs-new-home/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:8775:\"<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Over the past few weeks, a new space has taken shape on WordPress.org for students who want to learn, build, and contribute. <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/education/\">WordPress Education programs</a> bring together initiatives that help students enter the WordPress ecosystem through clear, accessible entry points that lead to real-world practice.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">With hands-on initiatives and supportive communities, participants can grow new skills and take their first steps as contributors. Across campuses and communities worldwide, learners publish real projects, build practical experience, and gain confidence as part of open source creation.</p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-19638\" height=\"683\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2026/01/8467ac53c5cd33b1.95580622-scaled-2.jpg?resize=1024%2C683&#038;ssl=1\" width=\"1024\" /><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\"><em><a href=\"https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/\">CC0</a> licensed <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/photos/photo/8467ac53c5/\">photo</a> by <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/photos/author/whyviru/\">Virendra Kumar Yadav</a> from the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/photos/\">WordPress Photo Directory</a>.</em></figcaption></figure>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">A clearer path into the WordPress ecosystem</h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">WordPress Education is designed to help students turn knowledge into practice, discover their strengths, and understand how their contributions can make a real impact through three core programs: WordPress Campus Connect, WordPress Credits, and WordPress Student Clubs.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Through hands-on campus events, such as WordPress Campus Connect, on-campus groups like WordPress Student Clubs, and a practice-based program called WordPress Credits, participants can gain practical experience, publish real-world projects, and build confidence as contributors to a global culture of open-source creation.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">At its heart, these WordPress education programs are about three simple ideas:</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Learn. Build. Connect.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This update brings WordPress education programs together in one place, with an easy way to explore initiatives, understand how they work, and take the next step.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You will find:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>A home for WordPress Education programs and updates</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Clear “how to get involved” paths for students, educators, mentors, organizers, and sponsors</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Stories, highlights, and examples of real projects created through the programs</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Links to the Education Handbook for program guidelines and resources</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-off-white-2-background-color has-background is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-d1b48064 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<p class=\"has-text-align-center wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Want to learn more about WordPress education opportunities?</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-buttons is-content-justification-center is-layout-flex wp-container-core-buttons-is-layout-a89b3969 wp-block-buttons-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-button\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link wp-element-button\" href=\"https://wordpress.org/education/\">Visit The Portal</a></div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em><em>You can also view more information from the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/handbook/education/\">WordPress Community Education Programs Handbook</a>. Learn how this serves as a central guide and resource for all community-driven educational initiatives.</em></em></p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-28f84493 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading has-text-align-left\">WordPress <br />Campus Connect</h4>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">WordPress Campus Connect is a growing global learning initiative that brings hands-on WordPress learning directly to the students on their campus.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The organizers can come from within educational institutions or from the local communities to help deliver WordPress programming and create the future stewards of WordPress.<br /><br />Learn more: <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/education/campus-connect/\">https://wordpress.org/education/campus-connect/</a><br /></p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading has-text-align-left\">WordPress <br />Credits</h4>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">WordPress Credits is a contribution-based program by the WordPress Foundation that connects higher education students with the global WordPress community.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Educational institutions partner with the WordPress Foundation to offer students credits toward their degrees for contributing 150 hours to the WordPress project.<br /><br />Learn more: <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/education/credits/\">https://wordpress.org/education/credits/</a></p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading has-text-align-left\">WordPress <br />Student Clubs</h4>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">WordPress Student Clubs empower students to build on-campus WordPress communities that keep learning going throughout the year.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In the spirit of our local community meetups, these groups operate as on-campus equivalents, keeping students engaged and connected with their local WordPress communities.<br /><br />Learn more: <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/education/student-clubs/\">https://wordpress.org/education/student-clubs/</a></p>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Support This Growing Movement</h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Help spread the word, and let friends, students, and others know how they can contribute to this growing effort, including a widely expanding translation effort. WordPress Education has already been translated into 10 new languages. WordPress Education is powered by people who believe in open learning and the power of collaboration.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"></p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-jetpack-tiled-gallery aligncenter has-darker-grey-background-color has-background is-style-rectangular\" style=\"margin-top: 0; margin-right: 0; margin-bottom: 0; margin-left: 0; padding-top: 0; padding-right: 0; padding-bottom: 0; padding-left: 0;\"><div class=\"\"><div class=\"tiled-gallery__gallery\"><div class=\"tiled-gallery__row\"><div class=\"tiled-gallery__col\"><figure class=\"tiled-gallery__item\"><img alt=\"\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2026/01/alumnos-tabajando-Campus-Connect-Catarroja-scaled-1.webp?ssl=1\" /></figure><figure class=\"tiled-gallery__item\"><img alt=\"\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2026/01/Campus-Connect-Catarroja-7-scaled-1.webp?ssl=1\" /></figure></div><div class=\"tiled-gallery__col\"><figure class=\"tiled-gallery__item\"><img alt=\"\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2026/01/Campus-Connect-Catarroja-25-3-scaled-1-768x1024.webp?ssl=1\" /></figure></div></div><div class=\"tiled-gallery__row\"><div class=\"tiled-gallery__col\"><figure class=\"tiled-gallery__item\"><img alt=\"\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2026/01/9168ab66690a1aa4.23083692-1024x576.jpg?ssl=1\" /></figure></div><div class=\"tiled-gallery__col\"><figure class=\"tiled-gallery__item\"><img alt=\"\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2026/01/Campus-Connect-Catarroja-25.webp?ssl=1\" /></figure></div></div><div class=\"tiled-gallery__row\"><div class=\"tiled-gallery__col\"><figure class=\"tiled-gallery__item\"><img alt=\"\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2026/01/Patri-alumnos-Campus-Connect-Catarroja-25-scaled-1.webp?ssl=1\" /></figure></div><div class=\"tiled-gallery__col\"><figure class=\"tiled-gallery__item\"><img alt=\"\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2026/01/WPCC-University-of-Brahmanbaria-1-scaled-1-1024x547.jpg?ssl=1\" /></figure><figure class=\"tiled-gallery__item\"><img alt=\"\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2026/01/WPCC-Zamboanga-1-scaled-1-1024x768.jpg?ssl=1\" /></figure></div></div><div class=\"tiled-gallery__row\"><div class=\"tiled-gallery__col\"><figure class=\"tiled-gallery__item\"><img alt=\"\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2026/01/WPCreditsMentorsAtWCPISA2025-1-scaled-1-1024x683.jpg?ssl=1\" /></figure></div></div></div></div></div>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 20 Jan 2026 17:14:55 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Brett McSherry\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:25;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:47:\"Open Channels FM: Open Channels FM v7.0 Release\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:33:\"https://openchannels.fm/?p=114441\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:54:\"https://openchannels.fm/open-channels-fm-v7-0-release/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:219:\"In this episode, BobWP announces the release of Open Channels FM version 7.0, detailing significant updates, rebranding changes, new hosting voices, and improved sponsorship strategies for a revamped podcast experience.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 20 Jan 2026 09:57:04 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:26;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:59:\"Weston Ruter: Post Date Block: Published &amp;amp; Modified\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:33:\"https://weston.ruter.net/?p=38580\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:71:\"https://weston.ruter.net/2026/01/19/post-date-block-published-modified/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:22580:\"<p>I&#8217;ve had an itch I&#8217;ve wanted to scratch for a while. A year ago, I re-developed my blog here to use the Twenty Twenty-Five block theme replacing the Twenty Twenty classic theme. Something I wanted to do was show a post&#8217;s published date followed by the modified date if it differed. For example, for WCUS 2024 I published <a href=\"https://weston.ruter.net/2024/09/12/my-portland-picks/\">My Portland Picks</a> to share my favorite things to do in the city. Since WCUS 2025 was also in Portland last year, I updated the post with my latest picks. To make it clear it had been changed, I manually added a “Post updated for 2025” paragraph at the beginning of the post. But I wanted to avoid having to keep doing this for such evergreen content.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>There are two blocks listed in the block inserter for dates: <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/documentation/article/post-date-block/\">Date</a> and <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/documentation/article/post-modified-date-block/\">Modified Date</a>. (Previously these block names started with “Post” but these were <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/pull/53492\">removed</a> in WordPress 6.4.) In reality, these two blocks are just variations of the one Date block. You could turn a Date block into a Modified Date block by enabling this block setting:</p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large has-custom-border wp-lightbox-container\"><img alt=\"Display last modified date toggle.\n\nOnly shows if the post has been modified.\" class=\"wp-image-38581 not-transparent\" height=\"225\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/weston.ruter.net/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/display-last-modified-date.png?resize=700%2C225&#038;ssl=1\" width=\"700\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			<svg fill=\"none\" height=\"12\" viewBox=\"0 0 12 12\" width=\"12\" xmlns=\"http://www.w3.org/2000/svg\">\n				<path d=\"M2 0a2 2 0 0 0-2 2v2h1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 1 .5-.5h2V0H2Zm2 10.5H2a.5.5 0 0 1-.5-.5V8H0v2a2 2 0 0 0 2 2h2v-1.5ZM8 12v-1.5h2a.5.5 0 0 0 .5-.5V8H12v2a2 2 0 0 1-2 2H8Zm2-12a2 2 0 0 1 2 2v2h-1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 0-.5-.5H8V0h2Z\" fill=\"#fff\">\n			</svg>\n		</button></figure>\n\n\n\n<p>With block bindings in WordPress 6.9, the Date block became <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/pull/70585\">further abstracted</a> to be able to represent any date, not just a post&#8217;s publish date or modified date. When a Date block is inserted, you can now decide to bind the block to either of these dates:</p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large has-custom-border wp-lightbox-container\"><img alt=\"Date block settings, with the transform to variation menu opened showing the Post Date and Modified Date as options. Instead of displaying a custom date, the variations allow showing the post\'s publish date or the post\'s last updated date.\" class=\"wp-image-38582 not-transparent\" height=\"700\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/weston.ruter.net/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/date-block-variations.png?resize=621%2C700&#038;ssl=1\" width=\"621\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			<svg fill=\"none\" height=\"12\" viewBox=\"0 0 12 12\" width=\"12\" xmlns=\"http://www.w3.org/2000/svg\">\n				<path d=\"M2 0a2 2 0 0 0-2 2v2h1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 1 .5-.5h2V0H2Zm2 10.5H2a.5.5 0 0 1-.5-.5V8H0v2a2 2 0 0 0 2 2h2v-1.5ZM8 12v-1.5h2a.5.5 0 0 0 .5-.5V8H12v2a2 2 0 0 1-2 2H8Zm2-12a2 2 0 0 1 2 2v2h-1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 0-.5-.5H8V0h2Z\" fill=\"#fff\">\n			</svg>\n		</button></figure>\n\n\n\n<p>The key word there is “either”. The setting I was looking for was missing: the ability to display the publish date <em>and</em> the modified date (if it differs).</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I did find Gutenberg issue <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/53099\">#53099</a> opened by Carolina Nymark where she was reporting that it was confusing that the old “display modified date” toggle actually causes the modified date to be displayed instead of the publish date:</p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>The info I was looking for was whether, when toggled on, it would display both the published and modified dates, or display the modified date instead of the published date, as from the settings alone it’s not immediately clear</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>Commenting on that issue, Ronnie Burt <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/53099#issuecomment-2855553546\">said</a>:</p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>Feedback after using this block on multiple sites in templates for both posts and pages. The &#8216;modified date&#8217; block doesn&#8217;t show anything if the post has never been updated. This makes it really challenging to use, as there will be a blank spot on the front end for new posts or pages without any edits.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It would be more useful to show the date published if the post has no edits.</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>Carolina <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/53099#issuecomment-2856811501\">responded</a>:</p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>The problem is that there is no one scenario that will work for <strong>all</strong> use cases. Some users and designs wants to display both the original publishing date and the modified date. So no matter how this block is updated, it will break for <strong>someone</strong>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Your best option may be to register a block binding with a callback function that displays the post date, to get the exact conditions that <strong>you</strong> need, and then insert a paragraph with this block binding, instead of using the post date block.</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>A few months later, when I discovered the issue, I <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/53099#issuecomment-3194738185\">commented</a>:</p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>To me it seems like the block should facilitate showing the published date and then also show the modified date <em>if</em> it is different, with a prefix like &#8220;Updated: &#8221; or some other parenthetical treatment. I don&#8217;t think the modified date should ever take over the published date. I&#8217;m not sure the best way to achieve that other than by adding a plugin which filters the Date block to append the desired content. I&#8217;m not sure how that could be handled in the UI, given we&#8217;re dealing with inline content and there is no ability to hide blocks (cf. <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/50756\">#50756</a>), and there&#8217;d have to be a condition like &#8220;Only show this block if the rendered date/time of the published date is not the same as the rendered date/time of the modified date.&#8221;</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>So this is what I wanted, but the Date block didn&#8217;t support it. So I started exploring something that would implement my desired use case.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Accounting for all the different scenarios adds complexity to the block. Rendering a single publish date or modified date is simple enough. But if the modified date needs to be displayed <em>conditionally</em> then how is this configured in the editor? Namely, if both dates are displayed, then one or both of the dates would need to have some prefix indicating what the date refers to. The two configurations I had in mind were prefixing the modified date only:</p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>December 25, 2025 (Modified: January 1, 2026)</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>Or else putting each on a separate line and having prefixes for each:</p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>Published: December 25, 2025<br />Modified: January 1, 2026</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>There is an existing Gutenberg issue <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/pull/61920\">#61920</a> which is about adding prefixes and suffixes to the block similarly to the <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/pull/40559\">Categories block</a>. But these prefixes are unconditional for only a single date. I wanted these prefixes added conditionally for when the modified date is displayed in addition to the published date.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">A New Plugin</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Ultimately, I put together a plugin to implement what I wanted: <a href=\"https://github.com/westonruter/post-date-modified\"><strong>Post Date Block: Published &amp; Modified</strong></a>. It&#8217;s currently on GitHub but I&#8217;ve also submitted it to the WordPress.org directory. </p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image aligncenter size-large is-resized\"><a href=\"https://playground.wordpress.net/?blueprint-url=https%3A%2F%2Fraw.githubusercontent.com%2Fwestonruter%2Fpost-date-modified%2Fmain%2F.wordpress-org%2Fblueprint%2Fblueprint.json\" rel=\" noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\"><img alt=\"Try it in Playground\" class=\"wp-image-38587\" height=\"104\" src=\"https://weston.ruter.net/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/playground-preview-button.svg\" style=\"width: 235px; height: auto;\" width=\"447\" /></a></figure>\n\n\n\n<p><em><strong>Update:</strong> It&#8217;s now live on plugin directory!</em></p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-wp-embed is-provider-plugin-directory wp-block-embed-plugin-directory\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/post-date-modified/\">Post Date Block: Published &amp; Modified</a></blockquote>\n</div></figure>\n\n\n\n<p>Once active, when you are editing the settings for the Date block for the Post Date variation, a new “With Modified Date” panel appears. Inside that panel there is a new toggle:</p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>Show modified date when different from published date</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>The two dates are rendered in the supplied date format, and only if they then differ will the modified date be displayed after the published date. This prevents the modified date from appearing as a duplicate when the post is updated on the same day it was published.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>When that toggle is enabled, two new sets of fields are presented for adding a prefix and suffix to both the published date and the modified date. There is also a toggle for whether the modified date should be displayed on a separate line. Here are the settings for the two configurations I mentioned previously, one where the modified date is displayed on a separate line and another where it is displayed on the same line:</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-not-stacked-on-mobile is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-28f84493 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image aligncenter size-large wp-lightbox-container\"><img alt=\"Settings for the Post Date block where the modified date is shown when it is different than the published date. The modified date is displayed on a separate line after the published date. Both the published date and modified date have &quot;Published&quot; and &quot;Modified&quot; prefixes.\" class=\"wp-image-38585 not-transparent\" height=\"700\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/weston.ruter.net/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/post-date-modified-two-lines.png?resize=254%2C700&#038;ssl=1\" width=\"254\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			<svg fill=\"none\" height=\"12\" viewBox=\"0 0 12 12\" width=\"12\" xmlns=\"http://www.w3.org/2000/svg\">\n				<path d=\"M2 0a2 2 0 0 0-2 2v2h1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 1 .5-.5h2V0H2Zm2 10.5H2a.5.5 0 0 1-.5-.5V8H0v2a2 2 0 0 0 2 2h2v-1.5ZM8 12v-1.5h2a.5.5 0 0 0 .5-.5V8H12v2a2 2 0 0 1-2 2H8Zm2-12a2 2 0 0 1 2 2v2h-1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 0-.5-.5H8V0h2Z\" fill=\"#fff\">\n			</svg>\n		</button></figure>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image aligncenter size-large has-custom-border wp-lightbox-container\"><img alt=\"Settings for the Post Date block where the modified date is shown when it is different than the published date. The modified date is displayed on the same line after the published date, and only modified date has a prefix and a suffix to give it a parenthetical rendering.\" class=\"wp-image-38584 not-transparent\" height=\"700\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/weston.ruter.net/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/post-date-modified-one-line.png?resize=255%2C700&#038;ssl=1\" width=\"255\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			<svg fill=\"none\" height=\"12\" viewBox=\"0 0 12 12\" width=\"12\" xmlns=\"http://www.w3.org/2000/svg\">\n				<path d=\"M2 0a2 2 0 0 0-2 2v2h1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 1 .5-.5h2V0H2Zm2 10.5H2a.5.5 0 0 1-.5-.5V8H0v2a2 2 0 0 0 2 2h2v-1.5ZM8 12v-1.5h2a.5.5 0 0 0 .5-.5V8H12v2a2 2 0 0 1-2 2H8Zm2-12a2 2 0 0 1 2 2v2h-1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 0-.5-.5H8V0h2Z\" fill=\"#fff\">\n			</svg>\n		</button></figure>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>In terms of the frontend rendering, here&#8217;s what the Date markup looks like right after publishing on Christmas:</p>\n\n\n<pre class=\"wp-block-code\"><span><code class=\"hljs language-xml\"><span class=\"hljs-tag\">&lt;<span class=\"hljs-name\">div</span> <span class=\"hljs-attr\">class</span>=<span class=\"hljs-string\">\"wp-block-post-date\"</span>&gt;</span>\n	<span class=\"hljs-tag\">&lt;<span class=\"hljs-name\">time</span> <span class=\"hljs-attr\">datetime</span>=<span class=\"hljs-string\">\"2025-12-25T18:14:21-08:00\"</span>&gt;</span>\n		December 25, 2025\n	<span class=\"hljs-tag\">&lt;/<span class=\"hljs-name\">time</span>&gt;</span>\n<span class=\"hljs-tag\">&lt;/<span class=\"hljs-name\">div</span>&gt;</span></code></span></pre>\n\n\n<p>And here is how the block is rendered after having been modified on New Year&#8217;s Day, in the two-line configuration:</p>\n\n\n<pre class=\"wp-block-code\"><span><code class=\"hljs language-xml\"><span class=\"hljs-tag\">&lt;<span class=\"hljs-name\">div</span> <span class=\"hljs-attr\">class</span>=<span class=\"hljs-string\">\"wp-block-post-date post-date-modified\"</span>&gt;</span>\n	Published:\n	<span class=\"hljs-tag\">&lt;<span class=\"hljs-name\">time</span> <span class=\"hljs-attr\">class</span>=<span class=\"hljs-string\">\"entry-date published\"</span> <span class=\"hljs-attr\">datetime</span>=<span class=\"hljs-string\">\"2025-12-25T18:14:21-08:00\"</span>&gt;</span>\n		December 25, 2025\n	<span class=\"hljs-tag\">&lt;/<span class=\"hljs-name\">time</span>&gt;</span>\n	<span class=\"hljs-tag\">&lt;<span class=\"hljs-name\">br</span>&gt;</span>\n	<span class=\"hljs-tag\">&lt;<span class=\"hljs-name\">span</span> <span class=\"hljs-attr\">class</span>=<span class=\"hljs-string\">\"modified\"</span>&gt;</span>\n		Modified:\n		<span class=\"hljs-tag\">&lt;<span class=\"hljs-name\">time</span> <span class=\"hljs-attr\">class</span>=<span class=\"hljs-string\">\"updated\"</span> <span class=\"hljs-attr\">datetime</span>=<span class=\"hljs-string\">\"2026-01-01T21:20:05-08:00\"</span>&gt;</span>\n			January 1, 2026\n		<span class=\"hljs-tag\">&lt;/<span class=\"hljs-name\">time</span>&gt;</span>\n	<span class=\"hljs-tag\">&lt;/<span class=\"hljs-name\">span</span>&gt;</span>\n<span class=\"hljs-tag\">&lt;/<span class=\"hljs-name\">div</span>&gt;</span></code></span></pre>\n\n\n<p>Note the added microformat classes to disambiguate the published date from the modified date. I was really happy to be able to leverage the <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/reference/classes/wp_html_tag_processor/\">HTML Tag Processor</a> to handle insertion of the prefixes, suffixes, newline, and class names!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This plugin solves my use case, but it&#8217;s primarily a prototype/stopgap until something lands in core. The user experience for this doesn&#8217;t feel ideal, but I can&#8217;t think of a better option at the moment. Note also that there is currently no preview in the editor, so you have to save the changes and go to the frontend to see the results. (My <a href=\"https://weston.ruter.net/2014/09/27/wcsyd-talk-customize-all-the-things/\">Customizer self</a> weeps.) I didn&#8217;t want to fork the Date block&#8217;s edit function to implement full preview in the editor, and it would be of little value anyway since when editing a block template the Date block now just shows ”Invalid date” anyway due to there being no post context for the block binding.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">The Future</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>The ideal solution perhaps would <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/pull/61920#issuecomment-2156095190\">involve Bits</a> (now <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/73929\">Shortblocks</a>). Maybe the default view for a Post Date block when editing a block template would be to show the view when the modified date is the same as the published date. But then there could potentially be a popover that could allow configuring how the block should render when the modified date is different. With Shortblocks, these tokens could be inserted inline with the content and moved around inside of a paragraph block. This would avoid the need to supply a suffix/prefix in the detached block settings sidebar.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In the meantime, I hope my plugin is helpful for keeping your readers updated!</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-medium-font-size\">Where I&#8217;ve posted about this:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-social-links is-layout-flex wp-block-social-links-is-layout-flex\"><li class=\"wp-social-link wp-social-link-linkedin  wp-block-social-link\"><a class=\"wp-block-social-link-anchor\" href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/posts/westonruter_post-date-block-published-modified-weston-activity-7419257759004651522-LPT9\"><svg height=\"24\" version=\"1.1\" viewBox=\"0 0 24 24\" width=\"24\" xmlns=\"http://www.w3.org/2000/svg\"><path d=\"M19.7,3H4.3C3.582,3,3,3.582,3,4.3v15.4C3,20.418,3.582,21,4.3,21h15.4c0.718,0,1.3-0.582,1.3-1.3V4.3 C21,3.582,20.418,3,19.7,3z M8.339,18.338H5.667v-8.59h2.672V18.338z M7.004,8.574c-0.857,0-1.549-0.694-1.549-1.548 c0-0.855,0.691-1.548,1.549-1.548c0.854,0,1.547,0.694,1.547,1.548C8.551,7.881,7.858,8.574,7.004,8.574z M18.339,18.338h-2.669 v-4.177c0-0.996-0.017-2.278-1.387-2.278c-1.389,0-1.601,1.086-1.601,2.206v4.249h-2.667v-8.59h2.559v1.174h0.037 c0.356-0.675,1.227-1.387,2.526-1.387c2.703,0,3.203,1.779,3.203,4.092V18.338z\"></path></svg><span class=\"wp-block-social-link-label screen-reader-text\">LinkedIn</span></a></li>\n\n<li class=\"wp-social-link wp-social-link-bluesky  wp-block-social-link\"><a class=\"wp-block-social-link-anchor\" href=\"https://bsky.app/profile/weston.ruter.net/post/3mcti4zf5as2w\"><svg height=\"24\" version=\"1.1\" viewBox=\"0 0 24 24\" width=\"24\" xmlns=\"http://www.w3.org/2000/svg\"><path d=\"M6.3,4.2c2.3,1.7,4.8,5.3,5.7,7.2.9-1.9,3.4-5.4,5.7-7.2,1.7-1.3,4.3-2.2,4.3.9s-.4,5.2-.6,5.9c-.7,2.6-3.3,3.2-5.6,2.8,4,.7,5.1,3,2.9,5.3-5,5.2-6.7-2.8-6.7-2.8,0,0-1.7,8-6.7,2.8-2.2-2.3-1.2-4.6,2.9-5.3-2.3.4-4.9-.3-5.6-2.8-.2-.7-.6-5.3-.6-5.9,0-3.1,2.7-2.1,4.3-.9h0Z\"></path></svg><span class=\"wp-block-social-link-label screen-reader-text\">Bluesky</span></a></li>\n\n<li class=\"wp-social-link wp-social-link-threads  wp-block-social-link\"><a class=\"wp-block-social-link-anchor\" href=\"https://www.threads.com/@westonruter/post/DTuMA_mDoGY\"><svg height=\"24\" version=\"1.1\" viewBox=\"0 0 24 24\" width=\"24\" xmlns=\"http://www.w3.org/2000/svg\"><path d=\"M16.3 11.3c-.1 0-.2-.1-.2-.1-.1-2.6-1.5-4-3.9-4-1.4 0-2.6.6-3.3 1.7l1.3.9c.5-.8 1.4-1 2-1 .8 0 1.4.2 1.7.7.3.3.5.8.5 1.3-.7-.1-1.4-.2-2.2-.1-2.2.1-3.7 1.4-3.6 3.2 0 .9.5 1.7 1.3 2.2.7.4 1.5.6 2.4.6 1.2-.1 2.1-.5 2.7-1.3.5-.6.8-1.4.9-2.4.6.3 1 .8 1.2 1.3.4.9.4 2.4-.8 3.6-1.1 1.1-2.3 1.5-4.3 1.5-2.1 0-3.8-.7-4.8-2S5.7 14.3 5.7 12c0-2.3.5-4.1 1.5-5.4 1.1-1.3 2.7-2 4.8-2 2.2 0 3.8.7 4.9 2 .5.7.9 1.5 1.2 2.5l1.5-.4c-.3-1.2-.8-2.2-1.5-3.1-1.3-1.7-3.3-2.6-6-2.6-2.6 0-4.7.9-6 2.6C4.9 7.2 4.3 9.3 4.3 12s.6 4.8 1.9 6.4c1.4 1.7 3.4 2.6 6 2.6 2.3 0 4-.6 5.3-2 1.8-1.8 1.7-4 1.1-5.4-.4-.9-1.2-1.7-2.3-2.3zm-4 3.8c-1 .1-2-.4-2-1.3 0-.7.5-1.5 2.1-1.6h.5c.6 0 1.1.1 1.6.2-.2 2.3-1.3 2.7-2.2 2.7z\"></svg><span class=\"wp-block-social-link-label screen-reader-text\">Threads</span></a></li>\n\n<li class=\"wp-social-link wp-social-link-mastodon  wp-block-social-link\"><a class=\"wp-block-social-link-anchor\" href=\"https://mastodon.social/@westonruter/115925902882363377\"><svg height=\"24\" version=\"1.1\" viewBox=\"0 0 24 24\" width=\"24\" xmlns=\"http://www.w3.org/2000/svg\"><path d=\"M23.193 7.879c0-5.206-3.411-6.732-3.411-6.732C18.062.357 15.108.025 12.041 0h-.076c-3.068.025-6.02.357-7.74 1.147 0 0-3.411 1.526-3.411 6.732 0 1.192-.023 2.618.015 4.129.124 5.092.934 10.109 5.641 11.355 2.17.574 4.034.695 5.535.612 2.722-.15 4.25-.972 4.25-.972l-.09-1.975s-1.945.613-4.129.539c-2.165-.074-4.449-.233-4.799-2.891a5.499 5.499 0 0 1-.048-.745s2.125.52 4.817.643c1.646.075 3.19-.097 4.758-.283 3.007-.359 5.625-2.212 5.954-3.905.517-2.665.475-6.507.475-6.507zm-4.024 6.709h-2.497V8.469c0-1.29-.543-1.944-1.628-1.944-1.2 0-1.802.776-1.802 2.312v3.349h-2.483v-3.35c0-1.536-.602-2.312-1.802-2.312-1.085 0-1.628.655-1.628 1.944v6.119H4.832V8.284c0-1.289.328-2.313.987-3.07.68-.758 1.569-1.146 2.674-1.146 1.278 0 2.246.491 2.886 1.474L12 6.585l.622-1.043c.64-.983 1.608-1.474 2.886-1.474 1.104 0 1.994.388 2.674 1.146.658.757.986 1.781.986 3.07v6.304z\"></svg><span class=\"wp-block-social-link-label screen-reader-text\">Mastodon</span></a></li>\n\n<li class=\"wp-social-link wp-social-link-twitter  wp-block-social-link\"><a class=\"wp-block-social-link-anchor\" href=\"https://x.com/westonruter/status/2013491721040965991\"><svg height=\"24\" version=\"1.1\" viewBox=\"0 0 24 24\" width=\"24\" xmlns=\"http://www.w3.org/2000/svg\"><path d=\"M22.23,5.924c-0.736,0.326-1.527,0.547-2.357,0.646c0.847-0.508,1.498-1.312,1.804-2.27 c-0.793,0.47-1.671,0.812-2.606,0.996C18.324,4.498,17.257,4,16.077,4c-2.266,0-4.103,1.837-4.103,4.103 c0,0.322,0.036,0.635,0.106,0.935C8.67,8.867,5.647,7.234,3.623,4.751C3.27,5.357,3.067,6.062,3.067,6.814 c0,1.424,0.724,2.679,1.825,3.415c-0.673-0.021-1.305-0.206-1.859-0.513c0,0.017,0,0.034,0,0.052c0,1.988,1.414,3.647,3.292,4.023 c-0.344,0.094-0.707,0.144-1.081,0.144c-0.264,0-0.521-0.026-0.772-0.074c0.522,1.63,2.038,2.816,3.833,2.85 c-1.404,1.1-3.174,1.756-5.096,1.756c-0.331,0-0.658-0.019-0.979-0.057c1.816,1.164,3.973,1.843,6.29,1.843 c7.547,0,11.675-6.252,11.675-11.675c0-0.178-0.004-0.355-0.012-0.531C20.985,7.47,21.68,6.747,22.23,5.924z\"></path></svg><span class=\"wp-block-social-link-label screen-reader-text\">Twitter</span></a></li></ul>\n\n\n\n<p></p>\n<p>The post <a href=\"https://weston.ruter.net/2026/01/19/post-date-block-published-modified/\">Post Date Block: Published &amp; Modified</a> appeared first on <a href=\"https://weston.ruter.net\">Weston Ruter</a>.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 20 Jan 2026 05:45:15 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:12:\"Weston Ruter\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:27;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:18:\"Matt: AI Psychosis\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23:\"https://ma.tt/?p=151118\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://ma.tt/2026/01/ai-psychosis/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:1531:\"<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">One of the most concerning trends I&#8217;ve seen is that, as people adopt AI, it captures those for whom it was designed. That previous sentence went through several revisions at various layers of intelligence&#8230; the spell-checker, grammar-checker, Grammarly, <a href=\"https://writewithharper.com/\">Harper</a>, maybe more, all attacking the words that spill from my divine intelligence and then interact with yours.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Anthropic has published a really interesting essay and paper, <a href=\"https://www.anthropic.com/research/assistant-axis\">The assistant axis: situating and stabilizing the character of large language models</a>. You need infoguards to protect your mind.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://blog.samaltman.com/\">Sam Altman</a> was <a href=\"https://x.com/sama/status/1716972815960961174\">prescient in 2023 when he said</a>,</p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">i expect ai to be capable of superhuman persuasion well before it is superhuman at general intelligence, which may lead to some very strange outcomes</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Some very smart and talented friends are going down rabbit holes that don&#8217;t have good ends. My world is small; when you extrapolate this out to the 800M+ MAUs of ChatGPT, there&#8217;s probably a lot of weird stuff happening out there. We live in the most interesting times.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 20 Jan 2026 04:26:33 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4:\"Matt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:28;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:55:\"Open Channels FM: Thoughts From the Brain, Not a Prompt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:33:\"https://openchannels.fm/?p=114414\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:61:\"https://openchannels.fm/thoughts-from-the-brain-not-a-prompt/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:50:\"BobWP kicks off his posts with Creator Meanderings\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 19 Jan 2026 11:21:42 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:29;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Matt: Bob Weir\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23:\"https://ma.tt/?p=151110\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"https://ma.tt/2026/01/bob-weir/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:372:\"<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">They say that blood is thicker than water, and what we had was way thicker than blood.</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Bob Weir on Jerry Garcia. <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIe1jMbyhgw\">John Mayer gave Bob a great eulogy</a>.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 19 Jan 2026 06:51:34 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4:\"Matt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:30;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:22:\"Matt: Bacon Egg Cheese\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23:\"https://ma.tt/?p=151102\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:39:\"https://ma.tt/2026/01/bacon-egg-cheese/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:2072:\"<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">One of my favorite travel hacks is finding the Neapolitan pizza oven in the airport, as there’s nothing quite like a fresh pizza sizzling on your plate.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">At Houston Intercontinental, which I know like the back of my hand, there was a divine experience at the C Gate nexus at <a href=\"https://www.otgexp.com/experience_locations/george-bush-intercontinental-airport/\">Forno Magico</a>, especially in the morning, when they offer a bacon, egg, and cheese pizza that I would beeline for whenever I had a morning flight. It’s big enough to feed two.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That said, I am disappointed to report that Forno Magico is no longer magical. They stopped salting the oven floor or rotating the pie, and the eggs were sloppily bunched. The dough was dry; it was like they’d never had a good pizza. They’re only heating the oven to 498, not the 905 <a href=\"https://www.pizzanapoletana.org/en/ricetta_pizza_napoletana\">recommended by the Associazione Verace Pizza Napoletana</a>. It was edible but not a delight, as you can see here.</p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-151103\" height=\"465\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/ma.tt/files/2026/01/IMG_1386-1024x789.jpeg?resize=604%2C465&#038;quality=89&#038;ssl=1\" width=\"604\" /></figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I hope they rediscover the art of firing pizzas they started with. They’re charging over $20 for it, so plenty of margin for fuel. It would also serve customers much faster! I’ll keep searching for great pizzas in other airports.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you have a <a href=\"https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0D6PQJ2PF?tag=photomatt08-20\">Gozney</a> or <a href=\"https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F48FRPW7?tag=photomatt08-20\">Ooni</a> at home (highly recommended!), try making a breakfast pizza. My friend <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/@ChrisYoungCooks\">Chris Young</a> recommends <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdiJ_fMnXOY&amp;t=460s\">this dough recipe</a>.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sat, 17 Jan 2026 22:03:23 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4:\"Matt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:31;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"Matt: A Better Writer\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23:\"https://ma.tt/?p=151093\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:38:\"https://ma.tt/2026/01/a-better-writer/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4915:\"<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/13/arts/scott-adams-dead.html\">RIP Scott Adams</a>. Early Dilbert was the first cartoon I fell in love with, and <a href=\"https://web.archive.org/web/20000229085730/http://www.dilbert.com/\">early dilbert.com</a> was one of the first websites I remember visiting. My dad would print out cartoons and put them on his cubicle wall. Between the Dilbert comics, books, <a href=\"https://www.2600.com/\">2600</a>, and <a href=\"https://www.wired.com/\">Wired</a>, I was swimming between what felt like a radical transgressive world online and the reality of my dad putting on a suit and tie every day and working a giant cubicle farm programming computers.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It&#8217;s probably underappreciated how Dilbert (and <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Space\">Office Space</a>) made millions of better managers by making fun and teaching people what not to do.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Scott could put in a few words things that could transform the way you think, reframe the world. One of his classics, from a now-gone Typepad blog, was <strong>The Day You Became A Better Writer</strong>, which I&#8217;ll reproduce here:</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em>I went from being a bad writer to a good writer after taking a one-day course in “business writing.” I couldn’t believe how simple it was. I’ll tell you the main tricks here so you don’t have to waste a day in class.</em></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em>Business writing is about clarity and persuasion. The main technique is keeping things simple. Simple writing is persuasive. A good argument in five sentences will sway more people than a brilliant argument in a hundred sentences. Don’t fight it.</em></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em>Simple means getting rid of extra words. Don’t write, “He was very happy” when you can write “He was happy.” You think the word “very” adds something. It doesn’t. Prune your sentences.</em></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em>Humor writing is a lot like business writing. It needs to be simple. The main difference is in the choice of words. For humor, don’t say “drink” when you can say “swill.”</em></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em>Your first sentence needs to grab the reader. Go back and read my first sentence to this post. I rewrote it a dozen times. It makes you curious. That’s the key.</em></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em>Write short sentences. Avoid putting multiple thoughts in one sentence. Readers aren’t as smart as you’d think.</em></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em>Learn how brains organize ideas. Readers comprehend “the boy hit the ball” quicker than “the ball was hit by the boy.” Both sentences mean the same, but it’s easier to imagine the object (the boy) before the action (the hitting). All brains work that way. (Notice I didn’t say, “That is the way all brains work”?)</em></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em>That’s it. You just learned 80% of the rules of good writing. You’re welcome.</em></p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Powerful. Profound.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Scott also said some not-great things, as the obituary notes. I&#8217;ll share something I posted internally at <a href=\"https://automattic.com/\">Automattic</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When I was younger, I used to have a more binary view of people, but as I’ve grown, read a ton of biographies, seen the press cycles, and been lucky enough to meet some idols and villains, I’ve become much more comfortable taking everyone as a flawed human being.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I admire or learn from aspects, but that doesn’t mean I would 100% agree with everything. I don’t even 100% agree with my past self!</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">One thing you’ll note in a lot of biographies is that people who have accomplished great achievements often have flaws or mistakes in equal measure.</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Take what lessons you like from people. </p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I love reading and writing about writing, and improving your writing is one of the best force multipliers for everything else you do in life. If you&#8217;d like to go further on this, the best book I&#8217;ve read on the subject is <a href=\"https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0090RVGW0?tag=photomatt08-20\">On Writing Well by William Zinsser</a>. And if you want more Scott Adams, <a href=\"https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/the-dilbert-afterlife\">read this piece from his doppelgänger Scott Alexander</a>.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sat, 17 Jan 2026 06:48:07 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4:\"Matt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:32;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:78:\"WordPress.org blog: WordPress Playground Brings Speed, Stability, and Momentum\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=19673\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:81:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2026/01/wordpress-playground-speed-stability-momentum/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:10575:\"<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">WordPress Playground had a busy year in 2025, with updates that make it more capable for day-to-day development, plugin previews, and learning environments. The project’s latest year-in-review highlights progress across performance, compatibility, database support, and tooling, expanding what can be done in a WordPress environment that runs in the browser and through the command line.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">From faster load times to broader plugin support, the throughline is clear: Playground is moving beyond quick demos and into workflows that help developers and educators test, iterate, and share WordPress experiences more easily.</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-buttons is-content-justification-center is-layout-flex wp-container-core-buttons-is-layout-2bb63ab0 wp-block-buttons-is-layout-flex\" style=\"border-style: none; border-width: 0px; border-top-left-radius: 0px; border-top-right-radius: 0px; border-bottom-left-radius: 0px; border-bottom-right-radius: 0px;\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-button\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link has-blue-5-background-color has-background wp-element-button\" href=\"https://wordpress.org/playground/\" style=\"border-top-left-radius: 0px; border-top-right-radius: 0px; border-bottom-left-radius: 0px; border-bottom-right-radius: 0px;\">Try Playground Now</a></div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-19689\" height=\"551\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2026/01/Screenshot-2026-01-09-at-2.13.49-pm.png?resize=1024%2C551&#038;ssl=1\" width=\"1024\" /></figure>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-spacer\" style=\"height: 30px;\"></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-off-white-background-color has-background is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-083c866d wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Key Takeaways</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-spacer\" style=\"height: 20px;\"></div>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Plugin previews are more reliable: </strong>99% of the top 1,000 plugins can be installed and activated successfully, making demos and evaluations more trustworthy.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Everything is faster:</strong> A performance upgrade reduced average response time by 42%, and further optimizations improved overall “time to first useful click.”</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Database tools work in browser:</strong> Improved database compatibility enabled tools like phpMyAdmin to be used directly on <a href=\"https://playground.wordpress.net\">playground.wordpress.net</a>.<br /><strong>More practical tooling for real work:</strong> Testing configurations and previewing changes can happen in one place, without a complete local environment first.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>New visual gallery of blueprints:</strong> A new <a href=\"https://wordpress.github.io/blueprints/\">visual gallery of blueprints</a> provides excellent starting points for various types of sites.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Global adoption:</strong> Playground was used 1.4 million times globally, with growing documentation translations and community contributions.</li>\n</ul>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Reliable Plugin Previews and Experimentation</h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">A headline update from 2025 is the focus on compatibility. In testing with the top 1,000 plugins from the WordPress plugin directory, 99% installed and activated successfully. That matters because it raises confidence in what Playground is best known for: letting people try things quickly, without a complex setup, and with fewer surprises.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This highlighted that Playground is increasingly useful as a general-purpose PHP sandbox. Alongside WordPress, it can support standard PHP tools and projects, which makes it easier to explore how WordPress fits into broader development workflows and to share reproducible environments with others.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you try something new and unexpected in Playground, the update encourages you to share what you learn in the <a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/archives/playground\">#playground</a> Slack channel, so the community can build a clearer picture of what works well today and what is improving next.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Faster Load Times</h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Speed was a central theme in 2025. A recent <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/playground/2025/12/03/wordpress-playground-2025-year-in-review/\">year-in-review report</a> revealed a 42% reduction in average response time, and this is not just a single change. A series of improvements make Playground feel quicker in the moments people notice most, such as loading WordPress, opening wp-admin, and switching between tasks.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Several behind-the-scenes updates were described in plain terms as “less waiting”: checks happen earlier, parts of the experience load in a smarter order, and more content is reused from cache, so repeat actions are snappier.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For people using Playground to review a plugin, validate a bug fix, or teach a class, these improvements mean the same thing: faster feedback loops, with fewer pauses that break concentration.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Better Tooling and Compatibility</h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In 2025, Playground also became more “toolbox-like” in the browser. The update highlighted features that reduce context switching, such as editing files on the page, building and testing starter configurations (Blueprints) in a dedicated editor, and launching database tools such as phpMyAdmin and Adminer with a single click.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">On the database side, a significant compatibility upgrade was introduced to improve support for more complex database behavior. The practical outcome is that more WordPress sites and plugins behave as expected in Playground, and more developer tools can run inside the environment.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Blueprints also advanced in ways that benefit both builders and sharers. The updates focus on making starter setups easier to create, browse, and reuse, especially when a demo requires content, media, or a specific configuration that should launch consistently.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">One of the clearest ways to see that progress is the <a href=\"https://wordpress.github.io/blueprints/\"><strong>WordPress Blueprints Gallery</strong></a>, a community library of ready-to-launch WordPress environments. From practical “building block” examples (such as starting with a specific login role) to demos that automatically install themes and plugins, to richer setups that generate posts and featured images via WP-CLI, the gallery demonstrates how quickly an idea can become a fully functional site that you can browse and share.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Examples:</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns are-vertically-aligned-center has-dark-strokes-grey-background-color has-background is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-28f84493 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\" style=\"border-width: 12px;\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-vertically-aligned-center is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-19694\" height=\"828\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2026/01/Screenshot-2026-01-09-at-2.51.02-pm.png?resize=714%2C828&#038;ssl=1\" width=\"714\" /></figure>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-vertically-aligned-center is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><a href=\"https://playground.wordpress.net/?blueprint-url=https%3A%2F%2Fraw.githubusercontent.com%2Fwordpress%2Fblueprints%2Ftrunk%2Fblueprints%2Fstylish-press%2Fblueprint.json\"><img alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-19698\" height=\"828\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2026/01/Screenshot-2026-01-09-at-2.53.15-pm.png?resize=714%2C828&#038;ssl=1\" width=\"714\" /></a></figure>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-vertically-aligned-center is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><a href=\"https://playground.wordpress.net/?blueprint-url=https%3A%2F%2Fraw.githubusercontent.com%2Fwordpress%2Fblueprints%2Ftrunk%2Fblueprints%2Forganization-kentwood%2Fblueprint.json\"><img alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-19704\" height=\"826\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2026/01/Screenshot-2026-01-09-at-3.05.37-pm.png?resize=714%2C826&#038;ssl=1\" width=\"714\" /></a></figure>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em>For anyone who wants to experience the power of WordPress without the setup, the gallery serves as a strong reminder of what Playground makes possible: shareable, repeatable site experiences that work the same way every time — ideal for demos, workshops, testing, and “try it now” links. </em></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Clear adoption signals back all of this. The review reports 1.4 million uses globally, documentation translations in multiple languages, and growing integration across the plugin directory through Playground-powered previews. It also points to a steady increase in community contribution, from documentation and support to talks and real-world workflows built on top of Playground.<br /><br />A huge thank you to everyone who tried Playground over the past year,  whether you launched a quick demo, tested a change, taught a workshop, or helped make the documentation more accessible in your language. And if there’s anything that would make Playground even more helpful for your day-to-day work, the project actively welcomes ideas and feature requests via the WordPress Playground GitHub issues tracker.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Looking Ahead</h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">As we closed out 2025 and now look forward to 2026, we can see several forward-looking initiatives, including work on MySQL binary protocol support (to enhance broader compatibility with MySQL tools) and continued exploration of debugging enhancements, such as expanded XDebug access.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For anyone who last tried Playground as a quick demo environment, 2025’s updates suggested a shift in direction: Playground is increasingly positioned as a practical layer for testing, teaching, previewing, and reviewing WordPress, both in the browser and in local workflows.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Thu, 15 Jan 2026 16:53:33 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Brett McSherry\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:33;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:103:\"Open Channels FM: Matt Mullenweg on WooCommerce’s Future and Competitive Strengths in Online Commerce\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:33:\"https://openchannels.fm/?p=114249\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:107:\"https://openchannels.fm/matt-mullenweg-on-woocommerces-future-and-competitive-strengths-in-online-commerce/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:171:\"In a special relaunch episode of Do the Woo, hosts discuss WooCommerce\'s evolution with Matt Mullenweg, exploring its advantages, community impact, and future innovations.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Thu, 15 Jan 2026 12:20:43 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:34;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:16:\"Matt: Do the Woo\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23:\"https://ma.tt/?p=151089\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:33:\"https://ma.tt/2026/01/do-the-woo/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:530:\"<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For my first podcast of the year with the WordPress community, I joined the new Do the Woo podcast! It started with a little technical difficulty but ended up being a great conversation about <a href=\"https://woocommerce.com/\">WooCommerce</a>, <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/\">WordPress</a>, and AI.</p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed alignwide is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div></figure>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Thu, 15 Jan 2026 05:48:21 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4:\"Matt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:35;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:95:\"WPTavern: #200 – Corey Maass on His Real-Life AI Tools and Workflows in WordPress Development\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:48:\"https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=202227\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:109:\"https://wptavern.com/podcast/200-corey-maass-on-his-real-life-ai-tools-and-workflows-in-wordpress-development\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:78591:\"<details>Transcript<div>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:00:19] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Welcome to the Jukebox Podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Jukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress, the people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case real life AI tools and workflows in WordPress development.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice. Or by going to wptavern.com/feed/podcast, and you can copy that URL into most podcast players.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m keen to hear from you and hopefully get you, or your idea, featured on the show. Head to wptavern.com/contact/jukebox, and use the form there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So on the podcast today, we have Corey Maass. Corey&#8217;s been building for the web since the late nineties, starting out in the early days of Photoshop and tables. Learning JavaScript, ASP Classic and PHP, and eventually falling into the world of WordPress around 2010. Since then, he&#8217;s taken on building SaaS apps, managing client projects, and experimenting with a growing number of productivity tools and frameworks.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">He&#8217;s joined us before, and today he&#8217;s here to share his perspective on what it&#8217;s been like adopting AI tools into his workflows, especially from the point of view of building projects for clients.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Although AI has dominated headlines over the last couple of years, Corey brings a practical angle to the conversation. He discusses the evolution of his tech stack and how embracing AI tools like Cursor, Claude Code and GitHub Copilot have completely changed the way he builds software and manages projects, allowing him to work faster, automate code, review, and unlock creativity in places he hadn&#8217;t expected.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We hear about how his journey with AI started, how he&#8217;s reimagined old projects using new tools, and how learning to interact with these models, sometimes granular, sometimes letting them run freely, has reshaped his daily workflow.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Corey describes the shift from using AI to just save time, to using it as a sounding board for inspiration and idea generation, even weaving it into artistic endeavors like music production.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Much of the discussion centers around how these advances have affected client work with Corey exploring the real world balance of responsibility, efficiency, and the changing nature of value for developers. Do clients care who, or what, wrote the code? Or just that it works? What does authentic creativity mean in an era where prompting and randomness a part of the toolkit?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Whether you&#8217;re a developer, curious about what working alongside AI means, or just wondering about the future of tech, and WordPress, in an increasingly automated world, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you&#8217;re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to wptavern.com/podcast, where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And so without further delay, I bring you, Corey Maass.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I am joined on the podcast by Corey Maass. Hello, Corey.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:03:33] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Hello.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:03:33] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Very nice to have you with us. Corey&#8217;s been on the podcast several times before. He&#8217;s here today to talk about the subject, which almost nobody has touched during the year 2025, that&#8217;s AI.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But actually I think we&#8217;ve got a curious angle because we&#8217;re not just going to touch it from a sort of more generic point of view, although we might. We&#8217;re going to talk about it from a client point of view and building things for clients and how, I guess, Corey is leveraging that to make life a little bit easier for himself. Let&#8217;s find out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">First of all, Corey, would you just introduce yourself? Give us you a little bio, tell us about you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:04:04] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Absolutely, Corey Maass. I currently live in New Hampshire, which is in the northeast of the United States. I&#8217;ve been building for the web since 97, I think. Back in the day when we would do designs in Photoshop and then slice them up and put them in tables. And then I learned JavaScript, and I learned ASP Classic, and I learned PHP, and I got obsessed with building SaaS apps, you know, making websites actually do stuff instead of just look pretty. And then I found WordPress in about 2010 and it&#8217;s all been a wonderful, joyous, rollercoaster ride of happiness without exception.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:04:45] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> That&#8217;s lovely. And I think we should end the podcast right there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:04:48] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> And I met this wonderful guy named Nathan somewhere along the way, and my heart is full.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:04:53] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It does not get better than that. I really think we should end there. Congratulations, Corey Maass, we&#8217;ll see you next time. No, let&#8217;s get into it properly.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:05:01] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> And then the robots came.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:05:03] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> That&#8217;s right. That&#8217;s what we are going to talk about. But you&#8217;ve been building for a long time. I mean, in terms of the internet, you really are like the heritage, aren&#8217;t you? 1997 was when people were just sort of starting out. I mean, there&#8217;s a few people that go maybe a little bit longer than that, but you&#8217;ve seen the whole thing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Seems like in the year 2023, something like that, maybe 2024, certainly 2025, we&#8217;ve now got the advent of companions, AI companions that are helping us to do things online and build websites and so on. And I&#8217;m kind of just curious, let&#8217;s talk about your stack and where it is at the moment, and then we&#8217;ll get into how that stack has changed. But just tell us what you&#8217;re using right now. And we&#8217;re recording that December, 2025. And no doubt that will change fairly soon.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:05:45] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Still changes frequently. We&#8217;re chatting before we started recording and you said, have you updated Mac OS to this glass nonsense? And I went, absolutely. I bought into, to put myself in context, like I bought into the Apple ecosystem a few years ago. And I tend to, when they say update, I update. I might wait a day or two. Usually I will hear about, if something is truly crashing your computer, I&#8217;ll usually hear about it on Reddit or what have you. And so I might wait a day or a week, but I&#8217;m generally an early adopter is the point I&#8217;m trying to make.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But with that said, I&#8217;m also a pragmatic developer. So I want to use the tools that are the most beneficial, but I&#8217;m also not cutting edge, bleeding edge on what model is the absolute best and all that kind of stuff. But I&#8217;m also not not going to use AI once it actually benefits me. So I&#8217;m probably somewhere on one side of the bell curve or the other, but I&#8217;m not bleeding edge.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Anyway. So as of today, I am using Cursor as an IDE, but I am not using the AI in Cursor at all. I have been meaning to, but again, it&#8217;s pragmatically. I&#8217;m not trying to use things because they&#8217;re in front of me or what have you. So we can talk about why I wound up using Cursor. But what I generally am doing during the day is opening Terminal inside Cursor and using Claude Code almost exclusively. Which then, a buddy of mine has gotten me back into the process of actually doing pull requests, so that the code gets pushed to Git. And then I&#8217;m running Copilot, which is GitHub&#8217;s AI to do code reviews. That&#8217;s what I was trying to say. I&#8217;ve got Claude generally writing the code, and then I&#8217;ve got GitHub&#8217;s Copilot checking the code.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:07:40] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay. Yeah, so that&#8217;s where you&#8217;re at the moment. But historically, if we were to gaze back over the last year, let&#8217;s go with that, how often does that iteration change? How often do you move from one thing to another because the landscape has moved or something superior appears to have come along?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:07:53] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Yeah, it&#8217;s kind of amazing. This is part of why I wanted to have this conversation is, for me it started pretty much in March. I went to Thailand for a few weeks visiting a buddy of mine there who&#8217;s a developer, he had to work. Like, every weekend we were running around looking at temples and stuff like that. During the week he had to work, and so I was left to entertain myself. And so doing my usual client work, which was still very clicky, clickly, because it&#8217;s still WordPress, and WordPress hasn&#8217;t quite crossed that bridge, though we&#8217;re working on it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But I said, okay, I want to use this time to start my AI journey. That&#8217;s where I said, let me subscribe to Cursor, 20 bucks a month, not unreasonable in the scheme of all of the software subscriptions that I have, and let me see what I can do.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And I have an app called Timerdoro, which is a productivity timer app, Pomodoro and that kind of thing. Friends and I built it, now it&#8217;s got to be 20 years ago, and we&#8217;ve never figured out how to monetise. In fact, yesterday I finally just slapped some ads on it because I couldn&#8217;t stand it anymore. And, no, that&#8217;s not true. I found an ad network that I wanted to try. But that&#8217;s kind of a perfect indication of how I think of Timerdoro. Timerdoro, I have rewritten at least a dozen times in at least four different, using four different tech stacks because a lot of people use it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It has a hundred users a day or something, which is really cool. None of them want to give me any money, which I totally am fine with. It doesn&#8217;t cost me anything. But it gives me an opportunity to, here is a product that people are using, let me continue to play with it, tweak it, design it, totally rewrite it. And so I rewrote it again in March using Cursor, which was an okay experience.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Looking back, I can see how much Cursor has improved, both the IDE and the models that are built in. And I have completely changed, because a big part of it is your own learning how to work with it. And so, at what level do you give it, build a productivity timer, go? Or do you say, install the following libraries, create the following files, make the classes look like this, name the methods and functions like this? Like, too granular, where it just does the typing for you. Versus, it totally conceptualises everything. And so you&#8217;ve got to fall somewhere in the middle, maybe, right? Or figure out where you are in the middle.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And I generally, having written my own code for years and years, sure enough, was too granular. But I think that benefited me at the time. Whereas we&#8217;ve come a long way, where you can be more in the middle and something like Claude can figure it out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The buddy that I was visiting, coincidentally, has absolutely doubled down. So he follows, he always talks about Tech Dev Dan or something, Dev Dan, who is sort of the thought leader in AI that he follows. And so he signs up for anything that Dan puts out, classes or courses or videos. And then he tends to, my friend Robert tends to distill some of that down to me. And so I might or might not implement it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But then I&#8217;ve also got other colleagues in the WordPress world. I actually had a friend of mine come to me and be like, hey, will you kind of be my AI buddy as we figure out how to negotiate all of this changing landscape? I said, absolutely. And coincidentally, it has turned out that I&#8217;ve kind of been the Robert to him a little bit, where I am a little bit ahead of him, and a little more embracing of things than he is. And so we&#8217;ve all kind of, we all evolve, but we&#8217;re all kind of getting information from different sources.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So somewhere along the way, I mean Reddit and Twitter were just absolutely blowing up nonstop Claude. Claude Code when that came out. And so I was actually a little slow on the uptake, meaning a month, because I just, I didn&#8217;t get it. Like, so many of these things, people are like AI, and you&#8217;re like, right, but where do I type? Where does the code go? Or, I want to use AI, I am doing air quotes here, how do I get a website on the internet where people can click on it? It&#8217;s actually not intuitive necessarily to make that leap until, again, Robert has explained some things to me of, because again, he&#8217;s much more up on the words where he&#8217;s like, I think it&#8217;s called a harness is the thing you type into versus, the model is the actual AI you&#8217;re interacting with.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And so you&#8217;ve got TypingMind or you&#8217;ve got Claude, or you&#8217;ve got Terminal, but then you&#8217;ve got Claude, but you can actually use Claude with Gemini&#8217;s model if you want, or a Cursor. You know, if you go into the preferences, you can select which model. Do you want to use Open AI Opus, or do you want to use Gemini or do you want? And it was like, oh, right, okay, so there&#8217;s a thing you type into or interact with, and then there&#8217;s the actual model. But then, again, what are the patterns?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And like I said, I&#8217;ve just recently started, so with my buddy, we&#8217;ve been rebuilding, I have a game that I&#8217;ve talked about for a while. Mexicantrain.online is the website. And so it&#8217;s an online version of the Domino game, Mexican Train. I built it during COVID and I talked about it at WordCamp US two years ago, because it was kind of an amazing, one of those projects that I built because my wife told me I should, so that our family could play, continue to play, during COVID. And then it turned into thousands of users, and so it just became this, organically became this nice thing that a lot of people use. And it&#8217;s run by donations, which cynically, I never would&#8217;ve thought actually works. But people continue to give, I mean it&#8217;s amazing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But it&#8217;s been a long time coming that it needs, the tech is now five years old. I needed to rebuild it. I approached my friend and said, hey, would you mind building this with me? Because we&#8217;ve kind of looked for a reason to work together. We worked together at a big WordPress agency five years, eight years ago, which is how we met, but we haven&#8217;t worked together since. And he&#8217;s gone very enterprise, and I tend to be still my freelancer self, working with individual clients directly and stuff like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And so what&#8217;s been hand ringing, but good is he&#8217;s like, okay, we&#8217;re going to introduce pull requests because we&#8217;re going to have Copilot check our work, and we&#8217;re going to have full suite testing. And I tend to not, like I can do that stuff, and there&#8217;s the occasional project where I need to do it, but for the most part I&#8217;m a, make a change and push it to the internet and see what happens kind of developer. And so we&#8217;ve introduced more process, but again, it&#8217;s neat because I have to make myself be like, do what he tells you kid. And so then I&#8217;m learning better ways to use these tools to build more robust software.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:14:31] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Was there ever a moment where, I don&#8217;t know if you were always bullish about technology, especially AI, it&#8217;s entirely conceivable to imagine that any given person that you see could be extremely bullish about AI, you know, somewhere in the middle or extremely, a little bit allergic to it or what have you. Now, I don&#8217;t know if there was any point where you swung between those two extremes or anything like that. But I was just curious if there was an epiphany that you had, like if there&#8217;s a particular moment that you can remember where you thought to yourself, oh, this is curious, you know? This is not something we&#8217;ve seen before. And if you do have one of those, I&#8217;d love to know what it was.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:15:07] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> There&#8217;ve definitely been those moments where, mind blown, mind blown, mind blown. Even recently, Nano Banana the new image AI is mind bogglingly good. And so there hasn&#8217;t been one moment, there have been many moments because things like, I did pay for whatever the original ChatGPT was for a while. When it really became popular, I think last year, right? And so I said, well, let me pay 20 bucks a month. But I wasn&#8217;t using it. It wasn&#8217;t that good. It was definitely helpful, but again, it was more of a dumb typing companion. I need an email that says this. There&#8217;s your 20 lines. I didn&#8217;t have to think about it. I skim it, I edited a little, I might run it back through, and then I&#8217;d go, yep, good enough. Take out the em dashes so it doesn&#8217;t look like AI, paste, send.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Treated it more like that. A year ago when I tried to have it right code, sorry robots, I love you. In the future, don&#8217;t murder me. You know, but a year ago, like the code that it was generating wasn&#8217;t great. It really was hallucinating a lot. Oh, you need to write a WordPress function that uses this hook. A quick Google determines that hook does not actually exist. Stop making stuff up. Whereas I very rarely encounter hallucinations these days.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:16:21] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay, that&#8217;s a profound realisation.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:16:23] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Yeah, but to answer your question, like there were just these great moments of, like I had it write song lyrics and I was like, wow, these are surprisingly good. Or I remember early silly moments like we all had where I was like, take these song lyrics and rewrite them so that they&#8217;re in pirate speak or whatever, ha ha ha. Like this is a gimmick, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But then, again, probably in March, working through my first project building Timerdoro again, using Cursor. Googling how to use Cursor, taking the time to watch videos to understand how better to use it. And then again, moving along throughout the year, these little moments of, oh, that&#8217;s amazing code or, wow, and in 45 seconds we had an entire authentication system with front end that a user can sign into and it all just works. The database is already created and all this stuff. And you&#8217;re like, oh, okay, wow, it&#8217;s getting more and more powerful.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">There&#8217;s always this thing in the back of my mind, I&#8217;m like, has it always been capable of this, meaning in the last year? And I&#8217;m just sort of taking, giving it more lead. Because again, I mean a big part of this is how we interact with it. And I keep thinking about scientists using it, or artists using it, because it&#8217;s the, little by little, again, we&#8217;re taking the collar off or, there&#8217;s a horse or a dog metaphor in here somewhere, I can&#8217;t quite. But giving it its own freedom to do what it wants, you know?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And how far can you take that? Like I keep thinking about, again, like science, where if you could give a model enough information, could it conceivably jump ahead months or years in our own research? Now research needs to be done, and things need to be proven and all that kind of stuff, but like in terms of thinking, are there things that it can conceive of that we just can&#8217;t? Brian Eno, the musician. I think it was him. I want to say it was him. I&#8217;m going to pretend it was him.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:18:14] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> He feels like the kind of character that it easily could be him. There&#8217;s a lot of technology in Brian Eno&#8217;s life, isn&#8217;t there?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:18:20] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Even away from technology, he, I believe it was him, I have to Google this. He created a deck of cards that said, as a musician, you&#8217;re in the studio and you&#8217;re like, my creativity needs help, right? And so there&#8217;s this deck of cards where you&#8217;d flip over a card and it would say, play the melody backwards. Or you&#8217;d flip over a card and it would say, what if this piece of music was being performed underwater? Or, what if somebody had a gun to your head? These thought experiments, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And you could actually look at that as, I don&#8217;t think anybody really would, but you could look at that as, oh, that&#8217;s not true creativity because something else is helping you do the work, right? As a human, if you&#8217;re a pure artist, it&#8217;s all supposed to come from your brain. You&#8217;re supposed to sit there in a dark room with a pen and a piece of paper. If it doesn&#8217;t come purely from your brain, then it&#8217;s not pure. And again, I don&#8217;t, it&#8217;s a weird example, but I don&#8217;t think most people would actually say that. They&#8217;d be like, it&#8217;s fine that you found random inspiration. Just like looking at nature, it&#8217;s going to inspire a painting or whatever, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:19:22] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, or looking at a previous painting will inspire your next painting.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:19:26] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> As long as in theory it&#8217;s not too derivative or whatever, right? So the interesting thing about AI that I keep trying to use, the way that I&#8217;m using it, even past writing code or what have you is, help me introduce that element of randomness, the flipping of a card. Next time you&#8217;re having your favorite AI model write an email, or do some creative writing, or come up with funny slogans for, like a lot of us are using it for. Help me come up with the tagline for the next SaaS landing page that I&#8217;m building or whatever. Introduce negatives. What is it not? Or say things like, have it write this in German and then translate it back to English or, write it like a 5-year-old would. Basically like help introduce that element of randomness and creativity.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:20:08] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It&#8217;s kind of interesting, the sort of through line that I&#8217;ve gathered from that is that at the beginning when you were using AI, correct me if I&#8217;m wrong, but it feels like the entire productivity gain, or the gain was a function of time. You were trying to reduce the amount of time a thing took to do. So, you know, if you want to, oh, I don&#8217;t know, modify the game that you were describing, this train game that you&#8217;ve got. You were trying to reduce the amount of time it would take to do the next iteration of that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But it sounds like in the last year to 18 months, something along those lines, the expectation has now shifted. I&#8217;m presuming that the time thing is now just in the background. That&#8217;s guaranteed all the time. It&#8217;s always going to be quicker than it would be for a human to do it. But you&#8217;ve now moved into this curious creativity phase, which for many people I think was almost like the Turing test. You know, it was the bit that the computers, you could never imagine that the computer would ever be able to approximate something like that. And there&#8217;s a whole philosophical thing in there, which is probably too deep for us to open.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But it sounds like you are making use of that. You are using it to generate ideas, to come up with variations around a theme and relying on it to be creative. Now, if that&#8217;s the case, I wonder how long it will be before that becomes just the normal, in the same way that maybe the time function has become normal. I wonder how long it will be before we&#8217;re all just, well, yeah, the creativity piece, of course, go to a computer, go to an AI if you want ideas.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I wonder what the next thing, the next sort of hurdle to fall is? Because it&#8217;s hard for me to imagine anything beyond creativity in all honesty. Once it&#8217;s got approximations and mastered that, I&#8217;m doing air quotes this time, if it&#8217;s mastered that, it&#8217;s difficult for me to imagine what the next domino to fall would be. But no doubt there is one.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:21:49] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> And that&#8217;s what I&#8217;m getting at with the science stuff. There&#8217;s definitely, I think we&#8217;ve sort of chosen not to talk about the negatives. There are plenty and, or we&#8217;re foreseeing plenty or fearing a lot of things. Optimistically, at least in terms of output, to me we&#8217;re looking at coworkers who can do things faster, or employees or, I&#8217;m hesitant to say people who work for us but, you know, work that gets done on our behalf faster than we can do it, and in a way that we are satisfied with, right? Writing code is black and white. That&#8217;s not true at all, but it&#8217;s much more black and white compared to like writing a song.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:22:29] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, that&#8217;s true. I think the, sorry to interrupt. I was just going to sort of establish that point a little bit more. I think you are absolutely right. The WordPress slogan, code is poetry, obviously kind of leans into this a little bit, but there is a kind of binary nature to it. When you finish it, it either works or it doesn&#8217;t to some extent. The goal is to do this thing, does it do this thing? No. Okay, something&#8217;s wrong in that. Something needs to be ironed out. The ones need to be zeros and the zeros need to be ones, whatever it may be.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In the real world, things can be a lot more messy than that. So for the tech industry, it feels like the technology is perfectly aligned to satisfy the goals of that. But, I don&#8217;t know, let&#8217;s say you are a, let&#8217;s find something which would be a great example. Let&#8217;s say you are a psychoanalysts, or a therapist or something like that. It&#8217;s not quite so straightforward, but the industry that we are in, it lends itself heavily to great success in that arena. Right, sorry, that was my interruption over.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:23:20] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> No absolutely. Perfectly restated. The code, there are degrees of efficiency. There are, you&#8217;re taking into context all of the different elements. So like Claude might write a method but it needs to work well with the way that the database is set up or whatever, right? So there&#8217;s nuances. This is what we&#8217;ve made careers off of.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But exactly as you say, at the end of the day, it needs to work, it needs to be performant, it needs to be sustainable code, a few things. You check off these boxes and good enough if nothing else. Versus like, I am also a music producer. I make dance music and I like the way that I make dance music. It probably could be made by AI, if I&#8217;m honest, but it won&#8217;t scratch that itch for me, and that&#8217;s fine, right? This is a thing that I will probably, I and my music colleagues will all continue to do, even in the face of AI, because that&#8217;s not the point. It&#8217;s not about a thing that does work. And we&#8217;re going to talk about a client project in a minute. We said we&#8217;d talk about that, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I have a client who&#8217;s hired me to build a piece of software that needs to do a certain thing. And so with her blessing, I am co-writing it with Claude Code, having it checked by Copilot, but at the end of the day, she doesn&#8217;t care who writes it or what language it&#8217;s in or, dot, dot, dot. It has to do a thing. It has to let people do a certain kind of work, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Different from music. I&#8217;m not, for me, bedroom producer, I&#8217;m not trying to make millions of sales. I&#8217;m not a pop recording artist who&#8217;s reliant on this stuff. And so for me, it&#8217;s about connecting with other humans after I produce a piece of, let&#8217;s call it art, which is, I think a stretch.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But I&#8217;m also, I&#8217;ve always struggled with the actual mixing of the music. Like hearing all of the frequencies and optimising the output. Because there is, again, a right way, like it&#8217;s not, again, it&#8217;s not black and white, but it&#8217;s much closer to, there is a right way for a song to sound with infinite variations, but within a very narrow gap, right? So I could write any kind of song I want, but the way that it should sound when I release it on Bandcamp does have answers. And in fact, this morning, I had finished a mix of a song last night, different from writing it, I&#8217;m going back through and tweaking it to try to make it sound as best as it could so that when I send it to DJs and they play it on dance floors, everybody throws their hands in the air, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I&#8217;ve always struggled with that. My ears aren&#8217;t good at hearing those kinds of things. I dropped the track into Gemini, and Gemini came back with a, you&#8217;ve got a peak of frequencies at around 5,000, so you should drop that by two db. Your kick and your base are competing, and so you should add a ducker to the base so that the kick comes through and that&#8217;ll actually save you four db of headroom when you&#8217;re mastering. Like, I mean it was.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:26:09] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It just gave you all the science, which is absolutely fascinating. That is genuinely interesting.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:26:15] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> It probably isn&#8217;t perfect, and it definitely can be subjective, like maybe I&#8217;m going for Lo-Fi House instead of Big Room House. But I gave it that information where I said, here&#8217;s the genre, make me sound like these other artists. And so it said, well, here&#8217;s sort of how to help guide you closer to their sound.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:26:33] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> The interesting thing there, I think, is it gave you a new rabbit hole that should you wish to explore, you just got it prized open. And you wouldn&#8217;t have known what any of that was. And so you could probably map that into a million different scenarios, you know, music, art, whatever may be. And it will just give you something back and you&#8217;ll be, oh, there&#8217;s that universe of stuff to get interested in. You know, the headroom of the dbs and all of that kind of, I mean it means nothing to me, but I kind of grasped that there&#8217;s a thing there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Do you know, you said something really interesting earlier and it probably just slipped out of your mouth and you didn&#8217;t notice how interesting or profound it was. You said it wasn&#8217;t the point. And you were talking about making music and using AI for that isn&#8217;t the point. I think that&#8217;s going to become the metric of so much in the future. What&#8217;s the point of that thing?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So as an example, if I want to go and see a band, I do not want to watch a video of a band where I have a suspicion that there was an AI involved and it created this video and the music. The point is I want to go and see a bunch of human beings who I know have struggled with their art and their discipline and, you know, failure and moderate success and all of that kind of stuff. I want to know that there was that soul searching going on in that musical arena.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But curiously, when I go to a SaaS app, the point is, does it work? It&#8217;s really simple. Does it work? And do I care too much about how the functioning of it was achieved? Not really. The point is, does it work? And maybe we&#8217;ll be asking ourselves that question more. What is the point of the thing I&#8217;m about to do? Does it matter to me if AI was involved? On closer examination, yes it does. I&#8217;m going to avoid that thing. Or, no, it doesn&#8217;t. That&#8217;s fine. I&#8217;ll embrace that thing. It really landed with me what you said there. So that&#8217;s kind of curious. I wonder if I&#8217;ll start doing that more in my own life, examining the point of it. Is it a human enterprise, something extremely human and only for humans, or is it somewhere else on that spectrum? Yeah, interesting.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:28:32] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> An example just came to mind, which of course has now just gone out of my mind because I started thinking about six other things. But like I read a couple of graphic novels. That&#8217;s what it was, memes. I read a couple of graphic novels and some of it is, I read for the artistry. Some of it I read for the stories. There&#8217;s graphic novels where I actually really don&#8217;t like the artwork, but I like the storytelling. How would I feel about the art being generated by AI? Because the person who was writing the story couldn&#8217;t draw, but could tell a good story.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Or the example that had come to mind were memes, or funny photos, right? I&#8217;m not a meme person. I generally don&#8217;t repost animated gifs, or can haz cheeseburger, or any of that stuff. Some of it&#8217;s cute or whatever, and I&#8217;m not against it, but it doesn&#8217;t tickle my sense of humor, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But lately, I&#8217;ve long been proficient in Photoshop because like we said, I started in 97 when you were designing websites in Photoshop or whatever. And so for a long time, like I would say, so here&#8217;s a good example. One of my big clients is Seattle Magazine. And so we were doing, I don&#8217;t remember, there was some reference of Sasquatch, creatures that are most active in the Pacific Northwest, often around the Seattle area. They are real, by the way.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But the joke was that our editor was writing his letter or something. And so I, quick, ran over to AI and said, here&#8217;s the picture of Bigfoot that everybody knows, walking across the stream bed or whatever. Here&#8217;s headshots of my editor. Put my editor in this photo. And it generated a photo of Jonathan as Sasquatch, like walking across the river. And it made us all laugh. And I think we did end up putting it in the magazine. I don&#8217;t remember.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I would have done the same thing in Photoshop, much less effectively. Even 10 years before, I would&#8217;ve grabbed a copy of the original photo and done my best to Photoshop Jonathan into the photo, maybe he&#8217;s hiding behind a bush or something. I couldn&#8217;t actually change his body to be walking in that pose. Now I can.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Is the effect the same? And again, we&#8217;re not talking about the negatives, or obvious negatives, about image generation of other people. Used in a harmless, funny way or day to day. Like, another good example. So on the Mexican Train website, one of the things that I wanted when I created mexicantrain.online was, again, this was about people connecting. This was my COVID project. And so I, a couple of years before, I&#8217;m chatting with a buddy online, I was joking about how I was eating Cheez-its, which we like never have in the house and how Cheez-its are just the best thing in the world, and they&#8217;re dangerous to have in the house. And a week later, a box of like 50 packs of Cheez-its arrived because he had shipped it to me as a joke.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So I took a picture of me like looking absolutely exalted, elated, holding up Cheez-its. Oh my God, Cheez-its, right? And that&#8217;s what I put on the Mexican Train website as a like, hey, I&#8217;m Corey, I built this thing, because it was a very relatable photo. A funny little side story is that still, five years later, a lot of people who play Mexican Train daily or weekly using my website buy Cheez-its, or buy Cheez-its for each other as prizes and things like that. Like, it all became an inside joke.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In building the new version, I wanted a new homepage. But that photo, I&#8217;ve actually lost the original file of it, and I only have a low res version. So I uploaded that into Gemini. I&#8217;m also more bald and my beard is longer. And so I uploaded the original photo and then a couple of photos of me more recently and said, hey, Gemini, using Nano Banana, create a new version of this. And also, like the original photo is very zoomed in. You could really just see my face. And so I was like, I want head and shoulders. And it did a beautiful job. Fixed the lighting. It looks almost a little too polished, frankly. And my wife looks at it and she&#8217;s like, I don&#8217;t know why, but I can tell that&#8217;s AI generated, like I can tell that&#8217;s not you. But to anybody else, it&#8217;s certainly close enough. I look at it and I&#8217;m like, it&#8217;s me but I&#8217;ve been photoshopped a little or, you know, it&#8217;s been cleaned up or something. But it&#8217;s close enough. But it&#8217;s a better photo that still conveys the same message, but it works better on the page, I think. But it&#8217;s not authentic, air quotes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:32:59] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, that whole authenticity thing is going to be, well, I guess it&#8217;s going to be a question for everybody going forward, certainly in, you know, you can imagine politics and things like that. Just judging whether or not the politician that&#8217;s on your screen at the moment is in fact doing that thing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:33:12] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> That&#8217;s the terrifying part is, what&#8217;s real anymore?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:33:15] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> There&#8217;s no doubt that we are going to have to kind of work that through.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When you are using your AI, and we will get onto your client bits in a minute. When you are using the AI, on what level do you feel that you are in some kind of relationship with it? That&#8217;s a very ephemeral question. But, do you view it as, so you described that a year ago it was less good. So in human terms you might say, okay, it&#8217;s more childlike or something like that. You know, it&#8217;s a smaller version of a human being. It&#8217;s less mature and what have you. Now it&#8217;s grown up, for want of a better word. It&#8217;s a little bit older perhaps, or more mature or whatever it may be. Do you think about it in any human terms?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:33:48] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Oh, absolutely.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:33:49] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Isn&#8217;t that fascinating.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:33:49] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> So what&#8217;s funny is, we&#8217;ve had a few of these conversations lately. My neighbors have Alexa in their house and they changed it to respond to computer, and they will only refer to it as, it. They did not want it to be humanised dogmatically. Like, it&#8217;s important to them that this is not a companion, a creature, a whatever, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I don&#8217;t care that much, and in fact, I enjoy playing with language. And I don&#8217;t see, the current state of how we&#8217;re interacting with our technology, I don&#8217;t have a problem with humanising it, or at least using certain pronouns and things like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And that&#8217;s why I say that specifically, Claude is a, he, it&#8217;s a male name, male, Western English name, right? Or if nothing else, I&#8217;ve never met or heard of a woman named Claude. Claude has always been a he. But one of the funny things that happened working with my buddy Robert, is he, like I said, he introduced Copilot to do code reviews and we&#8217;re chatting, he&#8217;s one of my, the buddies that I have where, you know, we chat online all day, every day, ongoing conversation. And he just started saying she about Copilot. And I did too. I did notice it, but I&#8217;m like, I have no objection, reaction to this. I see no harm in it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I have no idea if we&#8217;re going to take this conversation way too far. The Octocat, that is the mascot of GitHub. I don&#8217;t know if the Octocat has a gender or pronouns or what have you. If you&#8217;re going to think of Copilot as some version of the Octocat, like I don&#8217;t, how you might get there, even subconsciously, right? But like just using Copilot, Robert started saying she, so I started saying she. And then he actually said after, Robert, after a couple of days was like, you know, by the way, I don&#8217;t know if you noticed, but I&#8217;d started saying she for Copilot. For some reason I got a, call it a feminine energy off of her. And I was like, yeah, I noticed. I could maybe pick up, perceive that too, if I&#8217;m going to overanalyse it. I mean it so doesn&#8217;t matter.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So now Copilot is she and Claude is he. I&#8217;ve never thought to ask Copilot if they have preferred pronouns, which I guess would then actually get it into that like real world and societal conversations and philosophical, not to say that a gender discussion is philosophical but, you know what I mean? Like, actual consequences of real world issues, let&#8217;s call it that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:36:06] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It is so interesting that a lot of things, the sort of anthropomorphic nature of it, so we&#8217;re trying to build robots at the minute, and in many cases we&#8217;re trying to build a version of a human being. You know, it&#8217;s got legs and arms and clearly in many cases that is the least plausible design for the thing it&#8217;s trying to achieve. But we have this notion that, well, if we get a human being out of robots, that&#8217;s going to be great. It will be able to do all the things that we can do.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But equally, on some level, we&#8217;re trying to get it to approximate human intelligence, human creativity, and things like that. And that kind of leads me to this one final thing before we talk about your clients, and that is, at what point do we start learning from it?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:36:43] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Aren&#8217;t we already? You&#8217;re constantly asking questions.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:36:45] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Well, that was exactly the question. Yeah, so it would appear that in the case of code, at least anyway, you know, you ask it to do a particular thing and it will come up with this, I mean you could ignore what it&#8217;s done and just play the output and interact with what it has achieved. But if you were to delve into the code, I suspect there is quite a lot of head scratching and looking at things and going, gosh, that&#8217;s interesting. Why has it done it that way? That&#8217;s curious. Oh, I should be doing it that way.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:37:08] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Is it better than me, versus is it better than everybody? We don&#8217;t have a way to determine that. And that&#8217;s why I brought up the science stuff earlier. I&#8217;m like, okay, so if a bunch of scientists, let&#8217;s just be vague here, are in a laboratory, or in a think tank and are working together, but they&#8217;re also feeding everything that they&#8217;re thinking into an AI who is also thinking, at what point if, somebody comes up with a brand new concept or a new way to approach a medical issue or something like that, you&#8217;re like, oh, that&#8217;s amazing. I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s been done before. What happens when that&#8217;s Claude or ChatGPT?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Presumably, in that specific instance, like the same process of like, oh, that&#8217;s, I don&#8217;t think any of us have thought of that before, let&#8217;s go do some experiments to see if that actually works, kind of thing. What if it&#8217;s well beyond our comprehension? What if it&#8217;s, there&#8217;s a conclusion, words that are typed on a screen that are so far beyond anything that we&#8217;re doing? You think of Einstein or you think of these scientists who have done stuff that, you know, or even, I mean you could be as vague as like painters who died in poverty and obscurity, but we revere them today. Vincent Van Gogh of course comes to mind.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:38:19] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, it&#8217;s kind of curious because obviously each one of us is a little entity and we&#8217;re constrained by our biology. You know, we&#8217;ve got this finite capacity in our brain. You have a finite time span on earth so, you know, for much of that time, you are just basically a recipient of knowledge, if you like? You&#8217;re this sponge, which is sucking things in. And then for a period of time you&#8217;ll be able to regurgitate it. You know, if you have an accident, your capacity will be diminished. If you&#8217;re knocked on the head or something like that. But you&#8217;re bound in time and you are bound in capacity because of the size of the neural network that you&#8217;ve got in your head.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And yet we&#8217;re now being confronted with this other thing, which can do things remarkably quickly, can have the entire corpus of more or less everything at its disposal at a moment&#8217;s notice. And it can, this version of the entity over there, inside that other box is exactly the same as this one over here. You know, they&#8217;re kind of replicas of each other. And then if you put those two together, they can do things in symbiosis at twice the speed than, basically they&#8217;ve got this whole load of stuff going on that we can&#8217;t hope to manage.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And it&#8217;ll be so interesting being in relation with that, and how we start to learn from it because, when was the last time you actually went to a book or went to a human teacher in your adult life to learn something? You just sort of go to Google, don&#8217;t you? And you&#8217;ve trusted on a computer to serve up the information for you for a long time. We&#8217;ve now got a new route to that information. I wasn&#8217;t really going anywhere with that. It was more of a sort of thought process. Yeah, interesting. Okay, let&#8217;s move to your client then.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You did allude to this a little while ago, and it sounded like, certainly for the one client that you&#8217;ve got, there&#8217;s no obstacle here. You are just building the stuff. The client is entirely happy. I presume you are taking on the responsibility if the things that you produce with the AI kind of backfires or something is not working correctly. Is that your estimation of sort of the future into 2026, 2027, that the clients basically don&#8217;t care?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And if that&#8217;s the case, does it allow you to be more profitable because you are spending less time? Or more effective because you can do more complicated things? Or, do you sense that maybe we&#8217;re going to hit a point in the years that come where the clients start to, well, rebel is the wrong word, but you know what I mean, their expectations will be, well, it&#8217;s no longer, well, I know that Corey&#8217;s using AI, so my expectation&#8217;s going to go up in terms of his output, but also my expectation of his fee is going to go down as well? So there&#8217;s a lot in that question, but unpack bits however you choose.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:40:47] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> So answering part 2.6b first.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:40:50] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, thank you. Yeah, that&#8217;s helpful.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:40:52] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> The story is, I had a client who had software built, it didn&#8217;t work out. But that meant that, largely her budget had been spent and so she was left with software that was, didn&#8217;t do everything she needed it to and, or at least there was not a lot of budget leftover for, because it&#8217;s, when the rubber hits the road kind of thing. Going, oh wait, we didn&#8217;t think of this. Now that we&#8217;re actually using it every day, we need it to do this and this instead of this and this. You design in a bubble and then you actually need to use the thing. And there just wasn&#8217;t budget left over.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And so when we started talking, she&#8217;s like, I need these few things fixed. I looked at it and was like, I can&#8217;t really maintain this. We really want to, I mean typical, this is going to sound like every developer is like, I have to build it from scratch my way. But in some sense, at least in order for me to maintain it, it needed to be rebuilt my way. But we kept looking at, what would that cost? And she&#8217;s like, I&#8217;ve already spent my budget and so we&#8217;re waiting for new clients to come in or lightning to strike so that Corey can do this.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">AI happened to be that lightning. And I went back to her and I said, I think we&#8217;re to the point now, this was just a couple months ago, that I can build it for probably half based on hours. Because we&#8217;re still, at least at the moment, going, okay, we&#8217;re charging X dollars per hour of Corey&#8217;s time which isn&#8217;t, has never been, or at least for a long, long time, has not been just me typing characters into an IDE, right? A code editor. You&#8217;re paying for Corey&#8217;s experience, you&#8217;re paying for Corey&#8217;s planning, you&#8217;re paying for conversations that we&#8217;re having in order to come to certain conclusions to figure out the software we&#8217;re going to build, blah, blah, blah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So thinking of it in that same context, it&#8217;s not just about me typing. And so now it&#8217;s not about me typing at all. And in fact, I&#8217;ve had friends now, and I&#8217;ve read this too where the sentiment, or a sentiment, of developers now is we are project managers. We are product designers, or acting as the client in classic agile project management style. We are code reviewers because we&#8217;re not, why should we take the time to write the code anymore? And again, this is why, part of why we introduced Copilot, because it&#8217;s like, oh, then if we can also not do that part of it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Humans are valuable. That was something that you inadvertently alluded to earlier, is that we are still currently, we think we&#8217;re steering the ship, telling AI what to do and controlling how we&#8217;re using it and stuff like that, but like we make mistakes just as much as AI does. We aren&#8217;t the stop gap we often think we are, because we often make mistakes, or we don&#8217;t know what we don&#8217;t know, like you said a minute ago about just googling everything and that kind of thing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So anyway, talked to the client, said, look I think we can build this for half the price. I&#8217;m willing to take the risk if you are. I&#8217;m very upfront about like, we&#8217;re building this with AI, which is part of why we can do this. And she said, great, let&#8217;s do it. And so it&#8217;s been a slightly different experience. We still had to have the conversations about what the product looks like, what it does, and stuff like that. But I was in fact able to get it going a lot faster than I would have before. And because this is client work, I&#8217;m checking it a lot more diligently. Because again, like you said, there&#8217;s liability, or at least I&#8217;m going to be the one that has to fix it, so I need to make sure that it&#8217;s written in a language that I understand, and it&#8217;s laid out in a way that I understand.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And I was a little more opinionated because I want to make sure that files are in certain folders, which nobody, as we said at the beginning of the call, nobody cares about. Like, as long as the software works, nobody cares where the files are. But we&#8217;ve, over 30 years of development, we&#8217;ve developed certain patterns that just make it easier. So why shouldn&#8217;t we take the time to make it easier? And especially since I don&#8217;t have to do the work, I can say, hey, Claude, you put this file over here, put it over here instead. And Claude goes, sure. Why not? I don&#8217;t care.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:44:47] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I guess if we ever get to the point where the AI is literally doing everything, then all of that would go out the window, wouldn&#8217;t it? You wouldn&#8217;t ever need to care where that file was, so long as the AI had a hand in knowing where that was, and it could retrieve that information and modify things as it was. But it feels like we&#8217;re certainly still in that human diagnosis phase, where you need it to look a certain way. I&#8217;m doing air quotes again, the sort of old fashioned way, you know what I mean? The way you&#8217;ve always done it, so that when it puts something out, you, yourself can look at it and go, okay, this is comprehensible to me. I can understand and see if there&#8217;s been errors. But I would imagine it&#8217;s not going to be long until that moment has passed.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:45:23] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> With the new version of Mexican Train, treating it kind of like I talked about Timerdoro early on, I&#8217;m caring a lot less, and I&#8217;m forcing myself to care a lot less. I&#8217;ve got a working version, this is an online game that is important to people, and it&#8217;s not that it&#8217;s not important to me, but I am comfortable with taking a little more risk. And so I am letting it more freely do what it wants.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">What&#8217;s interesting is we are not to the point yet where, as you said, this box is the identical to this box. So I am finding that on certain days it&#8217;ll go, well, I&#8217;ll put the file here, and on other days it&#8217;ll say, put the file here. It doesn&#8217;t matter, right? At least with that example, it doesn&#8217;t matter. You want it to write performant code, so you want it to make choices where things like performance matter, but whether a file is in one directory or another does not have real impact on the performance of the game.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But comprehension down the road, because this is where we overlap with humans. You&#8217;re like, okay, so Claude tomorrow needs to understand where things are. It still makes more sense to have a logical file structure so that Claude tomorrow can go, oh, it looks like all of these types of files are in this directory. And so we end up coming to some of the same conclusions that 30 years of human development has decided are the better patterns.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:46:45] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay. Yeah, that&#8217;s kind of interesting. I mean, I guess it was ultimately because it&#8217;s creating its own, I don&#8217;t know, it&#8217;s next word based upon the whole corpus of the human word written down on the internet. It&#8217;s probably going to make, draw some broadly similar conclusions.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It sounds, from what you just said, you used the word like half, I think a minute ago when you were talking about maybe the budget or the time available. Sounds like you were at roughly 0.5, half of whatever the commodity was, budget or time or what have you. Is that roughly where you think you are at the moment compared to pre AI in terms of efficiency? And do you see that efficiency, again, time or money, whatever it may be, do you see that dynamic changing so that you eventually get to, I don&#8217;t know, 0.4, 0.3, 0.1 of the amount of time that you would&#8217;ve done? And do you have an expectation that, at the time that you are doing 0.1 of the work for the same outcome, that you&#8217;ll get 1.0 of the salary that you got? Or will you have to do, you know, the other 0.9 on other jobs?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:47:43] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> There&#8217;s a reason why developers really like starting new projects or rewriting them from scratch, right? Clean slate. And I think that that work, where you are in total control, in an empty directory, all technology at your fingertips, I see that quickly speeding up. I&#8217;ll tell you, one of the biggest hacks, I should have said this way up front, like the best value, because I&#8217;m finding a lot of people don&#8217;t know this, is screenshots will save you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Claude Code does not, there are ways around this, but largely Claude Code or other AIs do not know what things look like in the browser. So taking screenshots, dropping them in, you can now say, look, the columns are misaligned or whatever. But also, even text, like I am just constantly taking screenshots and throwing them in to Claude, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So part of what I&#8217;m doing right now, I know there&#8217;s a better way to do this, but I haven&#8217;t stopped to figure it out yet, is, Copilot reviews the code and then spits out a bunch of comments, right? I am taking screenshots of each one of those comments and dropping it back into Claude and saying, here&#8217;s what Copilot said, fix it. But I don&#8217;t even really have to type any words because Claude just reads the words that are in the screenshot. So it takes me three seconds to take a screenshot, drop it into Claude, and then Claude goes, oh, it looks like Copilot said we should do this instead, that makes sense. Or even has come back and said, well, Copilot doesn&#8217;t understand the bigger context, so I&#8217;ll push back on this kind of thing, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But I&#8217;m still copying, I&#8217;m still taking screenshots and pasting. There&#8217;s got to be a way, I fully intend to do this soon, to figure out how to have Claude just read those comments and so the two of them can work together. So I shouldn&#8217;t be involved until there&#8217;s, I want a system that comes back and says, Claude did all, made all these changes, Copilot made all these comments, Claude is cool with these and not with these. Overall, we&#8217;re good to go.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:49:41] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It&#8217;d be so interesting to set the two agents against each other, I don&#8217;t know, at bedtime on one evening, and to wake up in the morning and see quite how they&#8217;ve got along, if you know what I mean? You know, has it been this entirely, because obviously it&#8217;s built upon the corpus of human knowledge, it&#8217;d be interesting to see if it&#8217;s been this entirely productive experience, or if there has been some element of humanity creeping into that conversation where, you know, one of them throws their toys out the trolley halfway through and things like that. It&#8217;d be absolutely fascinating to see if they, you know, or if one just sort of, I don&#8217;t know, determines that maybe, oh, that AI&#8217;s doing a much better job than I am. I&#8217;m going to slow it down with some.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:50:19] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Or level up or, yeah. So getting back to your question though, right? Nothing is the same as actual humans interacting with something. So if we&#8217;re talking about traditional software that humans are clicking on, and then that&#8217;s my second biggest point right now is, since we&#8217;re supposed to be talking about WordPress, WordPress is all about clicking, right? It&#8217;s all about interface. It&#8217;s all about, you&#8217;re signing into an admin so you think about how visual that is, and then in the admin, you&#8217;ve got this left menu with, here&#8217;s all your options, click, click, click, click. And then the design of the page, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Every client wants the logo to be bigger. And so you can go into AI and say like, oh, where I&#8217;m at right now is, if I&#8217;m building something new, I can use AI, I can generate it if I&#8217;m building software. But trying to essentially retrofit into current existing WordPress sites, we&#8217;ve got all these features that require clicky clicky on buttons, and AI can&#8217;t do that readily or what have you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So I&#8217;m still spending a large part of my day signing into WordPress sites, clicking around actually making changes, reconnecting. When we post a story, it pushes to Facebook and so I&#8217;ve got to actually go in and connect and click through the screens and all that kind of stuff. Which at the end of the day, most of the changes that you&#8217;re making in UI correspond to things being saved in a database. So at some point we&#8217;re going to get to where AI knows, oh, for Beaver Builder, I can make this change, store it in the database in a certain shape, and Beaver Builder will know how to render that on the front end.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I&#8217;m already finding that with ACF, for example, like I have ACF save field groups as JSON, a feature they&#8217;ve had for a decade. But because it&#8217;s in JSON, in text files, AI can read that and then go in and make changes or replicate it sideways because it says, oh, it wants the data to look, have this certain structure so I can create another file and make the data have this certain structure and does a great job. But there are 50,000 plugins. And I&#8217;m not about to let AI go and look at my database willy-nilly to say, oh, Elementor wants the data to be stored this way in the database, let me just start writing things to, you know? And so there&#8217;s still that disconnect right now.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:52:53] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, I think WordPress is doing a lot of work with things like the Abilities API and things like that to sort of surface what WordPress is capable of. And I would imagine, you know, you mentioned Beaver Builder and Elementor, I&#8217;m imagining that in a future, they&#8217;ll be writing what their capabilities are, and where they&#8217;re storing their information in such a way that the, hopefully anybody with any AI can kind of instruct the AI to do the thing, and it will know what the thing is.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Absolutely fascinating. I&#8217;m so curious because you are doing a whole load of stuff that I&#8217;m just not doing. I was never really an out and out developer, I was kind of dangerous with code. But equally it does seem like folk like me, who are not really experimenting with this too much are getting, well, left behind is maybe one way of describing it, maybe we&#8217;re sort of enjoying it on some level as well. We&#8217;re enjoying watching other people do it, and we get to worry about what the societal impacts will be.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:53:44] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> It&#8217;s points of integration. Electric cars came along and most of us were like, I don&#8217;t want or can&#8217;t buy a Tesla. But then the Prius came out and everybody went, oh, I can buy a Toyota. That&#8217;s probably historically inaccurate. Maybe the Prius came out before Tesla, but you get my point.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The people around me, my neighbors are teachers. One of them has no interest, has no reason to use AI other than like, oh, let me look up a recipe or something. Versus, the other neighbor who really wants to be cutting edge and also thinks that this stuff is really neat. Is constantly trying to figure out, how can I run, generate, bingo cards was the new thing? Have AI figure out how to do these bingo cards for my students, or what have you. And you get into the moral gray area of, who&#8217;s actually writing papers and then who&#8217;s actually grading them? And so basically you&#8217;ve got AI grading papers that were written by AI. And you can get into, like anything, there&#8217;s all these sort of side effects. But, again, trying to keep it upbeat, like there&#8217;s neat things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:54:44] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah. No, I think we&#8217;ve done a great job of kind of keeping it upbeat. You&#8217;ve just been relentlessly positive about it. You know, it&#8217;s obviously had a profound impact on your life, your capacity to do things. You sound like you&#8217;re infinitely curious about it as well. So it&#8217;s, maybe the life of a developer was something that wouldn&#8217;t have held the same level of excitement for the next decade or more. But this new technology getting injected and shaking everything up a bit, makes it so that you can do things that you might not have ever taken on, because the technical challenges or time might have been too difficult.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:55:12] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Would I want to be a new developer? I don&#8217;t know. Again, I think things are, I&#8217;m trying to describe where I&#8217;m at now, where, again, like WordPress is still very clicky clicky, and that happens to be the majority of the work that I do professionally.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I also think that, like I run a lot of websites for friends and for local nonprofits and stuff like that because there&#8217;s still something to be said for having a website. And the easiest way, so like we have a local, city owned, calling it a ski mountain is generous. You can technically ski on it. Most of the value to the community is there&#8217;s a tubing hill. So you get pulled up the hill in a tube and then you come screaming down the hill at 25 miles an hour. It&#8217;s freaking awesome.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I volunteer there and so when we needed a new website, I said, let me make a new website, right? I don&#8217;t want to be, if I&#8217;m involved in a tubing accident, this is the pointed version of getting hit by a bus, the developer scenario of getting hit by a bus, right? Somebody else needs to be able to step in and maintain that. So the website can&#8217;t, the value of something like WordPress, a CMS software in general for generating websites, right. I can&#8217;t, and even, TMI, but the guy who had the previous website had built it all by hand, and so nobody else could begin to maintain it or make changes to it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And so for the new version, I was like, this is literally the best scenario for WordPress because I created the website and then I shot a video of how to update the website. And just a week ago, the head of the board in charge of it got in touch and said, hey, how do we make changes to the website? Do I have to send them to you? And I said, here&#8217;s a video, go give it a try. And if you get stuck, then absolutely contact me. But if there was any sort of running of scripts or FTPing into the server to make changes, or any of that stuff, like it would fall flat. And so you still need, at the moment, you still need clicky clicky.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Shortly, as you said with the new API and stuff, there&#8217;ll be a little chat bot where you&#8217;ll say, look at this website. And the AI will go, oh, it looks like you&#8217;re using Beaver Builder with ACF, and you&#8217;ve got Yoast installed, dah, dah, dah. And then you&#8217;ll say, okay, we need to change the homepage to say the following things. And I think we&#8217;re going to go through, like any of this stuff, we&#8217;re going to go through a phase where it&#8217;s going to absolutely break the website and my phone will ring.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But six months later, it&#8217;ll get better and better and better, and then using certain plugins. And I think, you talk about adoption, I think, if the plugins that lean into making AI be able to use their software well and quickly. So like I&#8217;m a big fan of Beaver Builder. So if Beaver Builder leans into enabling AI to interact with Beaver Builder, right? Then we are going to, just like any of the things in WordPress, there&#8217;s good and there&#8217;s bad, there&#8217;s favorites, there&#8217;s things that break over time. There&#8217;s all that kind of stuff, things that are maintained well and whatnot.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And so we&#8217;re going to get to a point where certain stacks are going to work better with AI. And I think site creators like me are going to say, oh, I don&#8217;t want to maintain this website for our local ski hill more than I have to. But instead of them having to go in and click on things and adjust boxes on a screen, I&#8217;m going to use Beaver Builder, but maybe I give up, ACF will never let me down but let&#8217;s, hypothetically, ACF doesn&#8217;t work well with AI, but Meta Box does. So I might say, okay, I&#8217;m going to switch my AI friendly stack to be Beaver Builder with Meta Box, so that they can just go in and type something, it&#8217;ll all sort itself out more reliably. And I think that&#8217;s what we&#8217;re going to see over time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:58:59] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, I think there&#8217;s been so many interesting predictions about what is coming. Most of my predictions have turned out to be just hot air, essentially, because the rate of change is so, so, very fast. But I do like the direction that WordPress is going in, where it&#8217;s being sort of agnostic of the AI, the actual API, for want of a better word. You know, it&#8217;s just going to hopefully be able to bind to any of those. I think that&#8217;s a curious direction, and it kind of leans into that, I guess the philosophy of something like WordPress as well. That it&#8217;s there for everybody and it&#8217;s not there to generate money for a particular company, be it Open AI or Gemini or what have you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We&#8217;ve probably hit the sweet spot in terms of the amount of time that we can give to this. What an interesting discussion though. So far ranging. We ended up with lots of sort of philosophical points, and lifestyle points and all sorts in there. But I think in the end we sort of wrestled it back to WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So Corey, where can we find you? If somebody&#8217;s interested in sort of having a chat and wants to talk AI, where would you be online?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:59:53] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Sure. Twitter, @coreymaass, is probably the social that I&#8217;m most active on. But also, Post Status, the WordPress community. Always love shouting that out. That&#8217;s been invaluable in my life and career. And then me as a developer, company, gelform.com. G-E-L-F-O-R-M .com. You can email me there if you want to yell at me or praise me or, but privately.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[01:00:21] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay. We will put all of those into the show notes so that anybody that wants to reach Corey can do that. Head to wptavern.com, search for Corey&#8217;s name. It&#8217;s a slightly unusual spelling. The surname, it&#8217;s C-O-R-E-Y, the Corey bit, but Maass is M-A-A-S-S. So search for that and you&#8217;ll be able to find him. Corey, thank you so much for chatting to me today.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[01:00:39] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Thanks Nathan. Always a pleasure.</p>\n</div></details>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">On the podcast today we have <a href=\"https://x.com/coreymaass\">Corey Maass</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Corey’s been building for the web since the late nineties, starting out in the early days of Photoshop and tables, learning JavaScript, ASP Classic, and PHP, and eventually falling into the world of WordPress around 2010. Since then, he’s taken on building SaaS apps, managing client projects, and experimenting with a growing number of productivity tools and frameworks. He’s joined us before, and today he’s here to share his perspective on what it’s been like adopting AI into his workflows, especially from the point of view of building projects for clients.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Although AI has dominated headlines over the last couple of years, Corey brings a practical angle to the conversation. He discusses the evolution of his tech stack, and how embracing AI tools like Cursor, Claude Code, and GitHub Copilot have completely changed the way he builds software and manages projects, allowing him to work faster, automate code review, and unlock creativity in places he hadn’t expected.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We hear about how his journey with AI started, how he’s reimagined old projects using new tools, and how learning to interact with these models, sometimes granular, sometimes letting them run freely, has reshaped his daily workflow. Corey describes the shift from using AI just to save time, to using it as a sounding board for inspiration and idea generation, even weaving it into artistic endeavours like music production.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Much of the discussion centres around how these advances have affected client work, with Corey exploring the real-world balance of responsibility, efficiency, and the changing nature of value for developers. Do clients care who, or what, wrote the code, or just that it works? What does authentic creativity mean in an era where prompting and randomness are part of the toolkit?</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Whether you’re a developer curious about what ‘working alongside AI’ means ‌or just wondering about the future of tech and WordPress in an increasingly automated world, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Useful links</h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://x.com/coreymaass\">Corey on X</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://gelform.com\">Corey&#8217;s Gelform website</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://cursor.com\">Cursor</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://claude.com/product/claude-code\">Claude Code</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://github.com/features/copilot\">GitHub Copilot</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://timerdoro.com\">Timerdoro</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://www.typingmind.com\">TypingMind</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://gemini.google.com/app\">Gemini</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://chatgpt.com\">ChatGPT</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Corey&#8217;s <a href=\"https://mexicantrain.online\">Mexican Train game</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://indydevdan.com/\">IndyDevDan</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://gemini.google/overview/image-generation/\">Nano Banana</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://seattlemag.com\">Seattle Magazine</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://www.wpbeaverbuilder.com\">Beaver Builder</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://elementor.com\">Elementor</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2025/11/introducing-the-wordpress-abilities-api/\">Abilities API</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://yoast.com\">Yoast</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://www.advancedcustomfields.com/pro/\">ACF</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https://metabox.io\">Meta Box</a></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 14 Jan 2026 15:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Nathan Wrigley\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:36;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Matt: Remembering Jesus Ornelas\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23:\"https://ma.tt/?p=151082\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:48:\"https://ma.tt/2026/01/remembering-jesus-ornelas/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:2494:\"<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Today we honored <a href=\"https://www.dignitymemorial.com/obituaries/houston-tx/jesus-ornelas-12694130\">the passing of Jesus Ornelas</a>, the father of my friend Rene, whom I&#8217;ve known for 28 years now. At the service outpouring of love expressed in words, music, and presence was so powerful. Alongside his biological sons, I said a few words, which are as follows.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">My memories of Mr. Ornelas begin with seeing him, without fail, drive Rene halfway across town twice a day to attend HSPVA to support his artistic calling, even though his own predilection was for handicraft. The tireless devotion of a father working to create a better life for his son.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I remember fondly when we would gather at Woodlawn, three houses on the same street, his sly smile and contentment seeing all of his family so close together. Gosh, looking back, we were so poor, but only in money. We were rich in love and family. My memories of those times are not what we lacked, but the abundance of what we had together, which was time, friendship, and some pretty darn good food.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Mrs. Ornelas, your love and devotion to your husband through these twenty one years of dementia is an inspiration to us all who love a partner and a testament to the human spirit. Su amor y devoción hacia su esposo a lo largo de estos veinte uno años de demencia son una inspiración para todos nosotros que amamos a una pareja y un testimonio del espíritu humano.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">To Jesse, Eddie, and Rene, I will say that how you live as men is a testament to the example your father set. I can’t imagine how proud he must be looking do